Major difference in mangrove growth.

[CHSUB]

Since September 11 I have 6 mangrove prop; 2 growing in a 33 gallon tank connected to rock and roots exposed, 4 growing in organic potting soil capped with argonite in a soon to be connected 15 gallon. While the systems are still not connected the water is similar and the 33 gallon is 6 months older with corals and fish. The mangroves with roots in soil are growing many times faster. The large mangrove is also growing well but not from comparison. All propagule started with no leaves, first picture very little growth in 33 gal, second picture in soil explosion growth.

 

[JTP424]

Interesting... both using same saltwater mix etc?
Are there plans for when the mangroves outgrow the tank? Do you trim the roots?

 

[CHSUB]

Interesting... both using same saltwater mix etc?
Are there plans for when the mangroves outgrow the tank? Do you trim the roots?

Yes, same water, same light 5000 k led, same photo period. Only difference is soil vs no soil. Also nutrients both test same, po4 ~ .02 and no3 0, which is surprising since I thought soil would leach nutrients. No plans for overgrowth, but thinking will have years? Cutting roots can be difficult, will kill tree because of saltwater; but can super glue ends to stop saltwater intrusion. It appears obvious that soil and planted mangrove is far superior, by mid December expect both systems will be connected and hopefully my main display will not suffer as it has clam, anemone, lps and sps.

 

[Eric R.]

I've had 4 red mangroves (originally started as 5, but one died shortly after I got it) for 4 or 5 years now. Always have had them in the same conditions, got them all from the same seller at the same time. They all had a couple leaves when I got them. There's always been a large difference in how fast they have grown, though of the 4 I still have, 1 has significantly outpaced the other 3. All have put on leaves, they were grown out in FW for 3+ years and I switched all 4 over to full SW several months ago. So may be hard to draw any strong conclusions from just a few trees about how they do in different conditions.

 

[CHSUB]

I've had 4 red mangroves (originally started as 5, but one died shortly after I got it) for 4 or 5 years now. Always have had them in the same conditions, got them all from the same seller at the same time. They all had a couple leaves when I got them. There's always been a large difference in how fast they have grown, though of the 4 I still have, 1 has significantly outpaced the other 3. All have put on leaves, they were grown out in FW for 3+ years and I switched all 4 over to full SW several months ago. So may be hard to draw any strong conclusions from just a few trees about how they do in different conditions.

Good luck with transition to full saltwater. After several failed attempts to transfer mangroves I have recently found success. It’s important to go slow and not damage the roots, Inland Reef Guy says if you do damage the roots super glue the damage. I discovered if you start with a propagule it’s much easier regardless of salt or fresh. I also have 4 propagules in freshwater with a betta fish in soil; the growth is equivalent to saltwater in soil. Big tree is Black Mangrove. If possible would like to see pics of your 4 years of growth?

 

[Eric R.]

Good luck with transition to full saltwater. After several failed attempts to transfer mangroves I have recently found success. It’s important to go slow and not damage the roots, Inland Reef Guy says if you do damage the roots super glue the damage. I discovered if you start with a propagule it’s much easier regardless of salt or fresh. I also have 4 propagules in freshwater with a betta fish in soil; the growth is equivalent to saltwater in soil. Big tree is Black Mangrove. If possible would like to see pics of your 4 years of growth?

Here’s are some photos from today. No idea why the other 3 have always been so stunted, they came from the same seller and have been in the same conditions. The tallest one I do think was the straightest propagule.

One of the two main branches was snapped when I had it in the school greenhouse for a while. I tried to glue the snap back in place, but that part died off after a few weeks. I need to get bonsai wire to train the branches asap.

 

[Eric R.]

Here’s a thread where I’ve been very lazy about documenting growth, but it has pictures from when I first got them.

Mangrove growth thread

Want to document and share the growth of my mangroves. I've been growing them out in a standard FW 20 long tank for just over a year now. I'm going to slowly transition that tank to full salinity (35 ppt) to make a macro/mangrove display tank in the next couple of months, just need to move out...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[CHSUB]

root growth is coming along. If you're patient, imo, see the roots grow is fascinating. 1/10 as fast as buried mangroves, but worth it!

 

[BristleWormHater]

Wish mine were doing this well!
My cat ate all the leaves off :(

 

[CHSUB]

Wish mine were doing this well!
My cat ate all the leaves off :(

Haha, my cat drinks from fresh water mangrove pot.

 

[Eric R.]

Good luck with transition to full saltwater. After several failed attempts to transfer mangroves I have recently found success. It’s important to go slow and not damage the roots, Inland Reef Guy says if you do damage the roots super glue the damage. I discovered if you start with a propagule it’s much easier regardless of salt or fresh.

Oh I forgot to add, that I already transferred successfully from fully FW to normal salinity SW without issue. I didn't move the plants though when acclimating them to SW, they stayed in the same container where they were already growing well and healthy in FW and I slowly switched over to SW over a 6-8 week period. I had transferred them from another aquarium into the bucket about 1.5 years earlier, but the transfer then was from FW to FW. I agree that root damage would make it hard for a red mangrove to acclimate to SW, considering their roots allow them to filter salt out of the water they uptake.

 

[BristleWormHater]

Haha, my cat drinks from fresh water mangrove pot.

Wish mine did that instead.
Mine were doing so well had great root growth, then I woke up one morning to all the leaves being gone. Then I woke up another morning to him chewing on the stalks. I put some chicken wire around them to help them recover without disruption.

 

[Eric R.]

root growth is coming along. If you're patient, imo, see the roots grow is fascinating. 1/10 as fast as buried mangroves, but worth it!

If you haven’t, you should check out Tyler, aka inland_reef, on instagram. He has several awesome mangrove tanks. He was also interviewed on reef builders. He says that the mangrove roots grow well with lots of flow, although I haven’t tried that myself yet.

 

[CHSUB]

If you haven’t, you should check out Tyler, aka inland_reef, on instagram. He has several awesome mangrove tanks. He was also interviewed on reef builders. He says that the mangrove roots grow well with lots of flow, although I haven’t tried that myself yet.

Yes, watch all his stuff. Roots are right near flow of wave maker.

 

[CHSUB]

Added 20# Tampa Bay Live Rock to 15 gal Mangrove Tank Saturday. Tank looks good with 3 leather corals and life encrusted live rock. Nh4 is 1 ppm even after WC which is surprising because though the live rock would almost cycle immediately. Still don’t feel comfortable connecting the 2 tanks yet, which is a little disappointing. Mangrove growth is very pleasing, however!

 

[Eric R.]

Added 20# Tampa Bay Live Rock to 15 gal Mangrove Tank Saturday. Tank looks good with 3 leather corals and life encrusted live rock. Nh4 is 1 ppm even after WC which is surprising because though the live rock would almost cycle immediately. Still don’t feel comfortable connecting the 2 tanks yet, which is a little disappointing. Mangrove growth is very pleasing, however!

Nice setup! Even having it shipped overnight, it's possible there is some die off on the rocks. I imagine that ammonia should get cycled by bacteria pretty quickly though.

It's been a couple years since I got a live rock shipment, but I feel like I did a few large water changes in the first week before ammonia levels went to zero last time I had 20 lbs shipped overnight from KP Aquatics.

 

[CHSUB]

Nice setup! Even having it shipped overnight, it's possible there is some die off on the rocks. I imagine that ammonia should get cycled by bacteria pretty quickly though.

It's been a couple years since I got a live rock shipment, but I feel like I did a few large water changes in the first week before ammonia levels went to zero last time I had 20 lbs shipped overnight from KP Aquatics.

Yes you are right about the die off. However, I picked up the rock from Tampa covered in water and placed the rock hours later, no shipping. I believe the die off is still continuing on the rock because some organisms are disappearing. Just have to be more patient, haha.

 

[CHSUB]

Time to start limiting vertical growth. I have a propagule with over one foot of growth and six large leaves in 3 months. I want to get horizontal growth. I read some posts about cutting, some have cut the growth shoot only to have a new single growth shoot grow. However, cutting below resulted in 2 new growth shoots. I’m first thinking of cutting the growth shoot, but cutting it a second time if a new single growth shoot grows back. Opinions? Where have you cut?

 

[CHSUB]

Here is the link of the journey with my mangroves in organic potting soil connecting to a mixed reef aquarium.



https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/organic-potting-soil-in-a-reef-tank.1072470/

 

[Subsea]

Wish mine were doing this well!
My cat ate all the leaves off :(

Cat nip!

@CHSUB
Very interested in the quality of the diver collected live rock that you got from TBS at Christmas.

Also curious as to the rate of nutrient uptake. It seems to me that mangrove would not uptake more from nutrients from roots in soil then roots in bulk water.