Ammonia/Nitrite levels during cycling

[Luan B.]

Hello,

I’m starting a new tank from scratch (425lts / 122 gal) using dry rocks and using Red Sea mature pro for seeding the tank with good bacteria. I’m following by the book but I’m still not seeing significant levels of ammonia or nitrites, like the levels described in the instructions, just feels like is slow or almost stalling.

My question is, every time I add nopox to feed the bacteria, levels drop a bit and still barely seeing any significant levels of ammonia or nitrites, tested nitrates and show 0.4.

Am I in the right path? Should I just keep dosing nopox until the bacteria colony grow enough to show any parameters or should I add/dose a different thing? Like ammonium chloride

Test done with seneye monitor

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I've never heard of dosing nopox to feed bacteria. Why not just use ammonia or a pinch of food?

Nopox is a nitrate and phosphate remover, its not a cycling tool (that I'm aware of)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Where would the ammonia be coming from?

 

[Luan B.]

I've never heard of dosing nopox to feed bacteria. Why not just use ammonia or a pinch of food?

Nopox is a nitrate and phosphate remover, its not a cycling tool (that I'm aware of)

Says in the instructions to keep feeding nopox daily to feed the bacteria

Where would the ammonia be coming from?

Exactly my thoughts, I assume one of the bottles has ammonia on it but doesn’t says anything on the label.
My question is: is it possible to cycle a tank using methanol? (Nopox) like Red Sea says or should I just add ammonium chloride instead?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Says in the instructions to keep feeding nopox daily to feed the bacteria



Exactly my thoughts, I assume one of the bottles has ammonia on it but doesn’t says anything on the label.
My question is: is it possible to cycle a tank using methanol? (Nopox) like Red Sea says or should I just add ammonium chloride instead?

NOPOX is not mostly methanol. It is a mix of ethanol and acetic acid, with small amounts of isopropanol and methanol (probably just enough to denature the ethanol to make it undrinkable and untaxed).

The organic can increase bacteria, but not nitrifiers.

 

[brandon429]

How rare to get a seneye cycle

I assume it's not been calibrated on a running system/ do you have any other reef tanks we could bench that awesome tester on?

Toss in one pinch of ground up fish food. Wait ten days, it's cycled, and what we could do with that meter + your tank is test a rule of updated cycling science that everyone without a seneye loves to debate. You've got a big deal there bro.

Considering what's been added so far that initial reading may not be bad.

If you have any possible way to get that sensor into a running reef so we can see if it lands in the hundred thousandths you could work wonders with that meter and see/ prove things yet to be documented in science. Let's start with the simplest time delayed 10 day universal testless cycle rule :)

 

[brandon429]

The way we will know it's cycled is because after day ten, doing nothing but adding that food and waiting, when you add fish the meter isn't going to spike it'll reach a steady state and hold close. The degree of that steady state is related to your calibration accuracy. Sometimes they do well without calibration but with it you earn smashing indisputable cycling proof ability. With that meter you can:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...t-reef-experiments-and-change-reefing.969264/

 

[brandon429]

With that meter and a few test reefs in home depot buckets you could advance cycling science in 2025 moreso than has been done in the last twenty years.


Nowadays people argue a LOT about things nobody's ever published or gotten to the bottom of in reefing. One calibrated seneye pressed in several different ways and they'll be taking notes diligently.


It's cool if your plans weren't to change cycling science forever lol

if you want that tank certainly cycled just put ground up food in it + wait ten days then add some life


and we'll at least audit every cycling chart published in books for the last fifty years (that by day ten when the ammonia drops it doesn't uncontrollably rise back up)

If you merely chart that action alone I could use your posted results to nullify about half a million false stall posts online.

Your cycle here is roughshod compared to most where they've carefully crafted ten species of bacteria with perfect feed rates and are posting on day 25 they're still stalled

Predicting yours to be ready in ten days giving no such care but just a pinch of carbon and phos and vitamins + you having a meter to prove it is a big deal in reviving validity of printed cycling charts (whereas every single stalled cycle post on the internet is stating by inference the charts are wrong, no, it's their bunk kits)

You'll see it. We'd also be testing predictability in reefing off just this one approach.

*We could also skip cycle your setup and make it ready for fish in two hours then use that meter to prove it. Legit, fish safe ready in two hours=easy


How would you like to impact reefing today? Name your required ready date = can do.

The chances that your reef is cycled right now is about 99% because bottle bac in suspension carry bioload and they adhere onto surfaces in under ten days. Where they're located in the system doesn't matter to ethical bioload carry. If you add fish and the meter did not spike and they lived fine that's a proven cycle.


The degree of science that can be extracted from your setup is serious biz.

What you're reporting above isn't super significant because there's no daily test load in place. Predicting what the meter and system and animals will do long before one is in place, and by when, is part of new cycling science.

With that meter, you might could nullify half a million of my posts :)

= please audit

 

[brandon429]

If you didn't have a running tank you could calibrate off a friends reef

Have them extract two gallons of water from their reef in a bucket and drive to your house quickly before it cools much and see what your sensor reads in it

We can trim into spec if not darn close to .005 max. Water from a running reef tank isn't going to be beyond that unless he overfed right before collecting the sample

If you get maybe .02 first run untrimmed that's still not correct but you could use that as a known safe baseline to watch after a test load is swimming around your system.

Two gallons not a small amount.

That someone isn't generating ten articles a week off a seneye and three test reefs is a travesty in reef chemistry. It's a crime.

 

[Luan B.]

NOPOX is not mostly methanol. It is a mix of ethanol and acetic acid, with small amounts of isopropanol and methanol (probably just enough to denature the ethanol to make it undrinkable and untaxed).

The organic can increase bacteria, but not nitrifiers.

Thanks for clarifying, that’s make sense.

Only reason why I’m asking is because I’m having a hard time finding pure ammonia around where I live and delivery would take a few days.

 

[brandon429]

You don't need any.

 

[Luan B.]

How rare to get a seneye cycle

I assume it's not been calibrated on a running system/ do you have any other reef tanks we could bench that awesome tester on?

Toss in one pinch of ground up fish food. Wait ten days, it's cycled, and what we could do with that meter + your tank is test a rule of updated cycling science that everyone without a seneye loves to debate. You've got a big deal there bro.

Considering what's been added so far that initial reading may not be bad.

If you have any possible way to get that sensor into a running reef so we can see if it lands in the hundred thousandths you could work wonders with that meter and see/ prove things yet to be documented in science. Let's start with the simplest time delayed 10 day universal testless cycle rule :)

I do have another tank, maybe try it later, ended up adding some shrimp to let it rot and hopefully feed nitrifying bacteria.
Thanks

 

[brandon429]

Agreed that's the same it'll work great.

Remove any uneaten carcass on day ten/ no need for full rot if it has any left accessible. If it rots all the way that's no big deal one time in 2008 my pico reef ate a goby I never saw again=same

There's no way to fail by day ten is the cool part, and no more additives at all are needed just time. It's a perfect stew for bacteria

 

[brandon429]

To help us since we won't see a seneye cycle for five more years - ultra rare

Could you put that sensor in the new tank and see if it hits in thousandths ppm when u can.


the reading after an hour to stabilize

Simply seeing how one calibrates at the start in a new system with low loading against a known cycled system helps all future seneye threads on the matter for sure. Must mine whatever data can be scraped. Please update this thread for the next several years in instances like overfeed events, or if a fish dies one day let's see the max ppm nh3 attained

Or during water changes: does your nh3 spike when you pour back in water and the sandbed clouds? (Predicted no) = science article gold.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for clarifying, that’s make sense.

Only reason why I’m asking is because I’m having a hard time finding pure ammonia around where I live and delivery would take a few days.

For cycling, ammonium bicarbonate or ammonium chloride are the thing to use. Food grade from Amazon, same as ammonia dosing to established tanks.

 

[Luan B.]

To help us since we won't see a seneye cycle for five more years - ultra rare

Could you put that sensor in the new tank and see if it hits in thousandths ppm when u can.


the reading after an hour to stabilize

Simply seeing how one calibrates at the start in a new system with low loading against a known cycled system helps all future seneye threads on the matter for sure. Must mine whatever data can be scraped. Please update this thread for the next several years in instances like overfeed events, or if a fish dies one day let's see the max ppm nh3 attained

Or during water changes: does your nh3 spike when you pour back in water and the sandbed clouds? (Predicted no) = science article gold.

I definitely will, just have to wait

To help us since we won't see a seneye cycle for five more years - ultra rare

Could you put that sensor in the new tank and see if it hits in thousandths ppm when u can.


the reading after an hour to stabilize

Simply seeing how one calibrates at the start in a new system with low loading against a known cycled system helps all future seneye threads on the matter for sure. Must mine whatever data can be scraped. Please update this thread for the next several years in instances like overfeed events, or if a fish dies one day let's see the max ppm nh3 attained

Or during water changes: does your nh3 spike when you pour back in water and the sandbed clouds? (Predicted no) = science article gold.

I will and also take screenshot of the parameters everyday and keep this thread update if helps.
Just waiting for my daughter go to bed then I can have some peace and work on this

Edit: my sand bed will hardly cloud since the grain size is between 2-3mm and I spent hours rising it before adding to the tank

 

[brandon429]

That's so good. It will be over time as legit detritus develops and the test is whether or not sandbeds hold ammonia. It doesn't have to be daily but mainly any impactful changes and what caused them. Thanks for great post

 

[Luan B.]

That's so good. It will be over time as legit detritus develops and the test is whether or not sandbeds hold ammonia. It doesn't have to be daily but mainly any impactful changes and what caused them. Thanks for great post

So these are the readings after 1 hour in my old tank, I didn't realise my ph was so low, not sure if it’s reading right but I don’t have another tester for ph, also the slot I’m using was sealed but made back in 10/2021, not sure if has a expiry date, should I get a new one?

 

[Spare time]

The red sea cycling kit should come with an ammonia source.

 

[brandon429]

Ignore it's ph. Not many use it for that or it's par meter

It's main utility in life is proving updated cycling science and for letting you assess bioload+filtration rates.

See how amazing predictable those meters are

If this was a red sea ammonia thread we'd never ever ever ever ever agree on tank safety. Now it's undeniable.

*how many days has your tank been running? One? That's just amazing what it calibrated to above your device needs 0 trimming.

We're seeing the incremental rise of ammonia control to the thousandths from the hundredths in your cycling tank. In real time. Now when the device is back in your main tank it is trustworthy

*am aware pH is integral in discerning nh3
But

The device is supremely predictable when calibrated all we're interested in is whatever baseline .00x it lands in for a known cycled reef. It may not be d.o.b accurate nh3 but it's now primed to indicate *changes* better than any tester in reefing history for the home.

** is there any way you have access to all cheap test kit like red sea or api ammonia* if so could you run them once on each system and post the pics. It's to compare reading status on two samples, color guess kits vs calibrated seneye. Amazing info. Rare.

Seneye deserves a big backpat for what it did to stop 30+ years of api induced cycling madness. The nitrification rates down to thousandths ppm nh3 were forecasted for a reef tank we knew nothing about other than it was post cycle.

That's the range all cycled reefs run at unless something is very skewed away from normal: all our systems are inherently linked in what they do, and by when. That linkage vs ranging disparity in completion dates and rates are the core tenets of updated cycling science. That tool you have is the only spyglass we have to see it.

All courtesy of the lovely calibrated seneye machine. The device will change reefing science.