An all-in-one component/trace element dosing solution? Is this what we've been hoping for?

[Daniel@R2R]

So this is a product by Tropic Marin, which is certainly a reputable brand. But I've never heard of an all-in-one solution for adding alk, calcium, and magnesium (let alone other trace elements). Any feedback? It looks like a great option if it does what it claims: All-For-Reef by Tropic Marin

 

[User1]

Few threads here to include one of the more popular for the DIY crowd. I switched from ESV 2 part not because it was a bad product, it isn't - it is great actually, but rather because I wanted to try a single dose solution. Well, that and it looked fun to make. In fact making a new batch today.

Could be coincidental but once I started to use it I saw some really nice polyp extension on my soft corals. I also noticed some new growth, faster, on a few test frags I have. On or around the same time I started the AFR dose everything seemed fine. But as I said I also switched from IO reef crystals to TM Salt (bio actif) and TM AFR so who knows. It could also be to another day of tank maturing and the corals just did their thing.

What I will say, that I can confirm:

1. DIY recipe using TM products is super affordable even for larger tanks
2. A all in one powder is due out next year - already out in EMEA so it will be easier and more affordable
3. I've not seen any negative side effects since using it
4. I've seen growth whereas before it was slow (perceived I guess)

Negative effect is that I have some cyno that came back on or around the time I started dosing and switch salts. This is probably not related because the bio active salt is also a form of built in carbon dosing so my nitrates bottomed out. Probably due to this but something I note. All in all it is a great product in my opinion.

Few other links but this one below is good.

DIY All-For-Reef Recipe from Tropic Marin! Thanks Zack!

Did you know you could make your own Tropic Marin All-For-Reef....cheaper than the premixed solutions?? @Zack@BRS put together the list of ingredients and demonstrates how to mix your own All-For-Reef for a fraction of the cost and the BEST part is that it's scaleable! Make a little or make a...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Few threads here to include one of the more popular for the DIY crowd. I switched from ESV 2 part not because it was a bad product, it isn't - it is great actually, but rather because I wanted to try a single dose solution. Well, that and it looked fun to make. In fact making a new batch today.

Could be coincidental but once I started to use it I saw some really nice polyp extension on my soft corals. I also noticed some new growth, faster, on a few test frags I have. On or around the same time I started the AFR dose everything seemed fine. But as I said I also switched from IO reef crystals to TM Salt (bio actif) and TM AFR so who knows. It could also be to another day of tank maturing and the corals just did their thing.

What I will say, that I can confirm:

1. DIY recipe using TM products is super affordable even for larger tanks
2. A all in one powder is due out next year - already out in EMEA so it will be easier and more affordable
3. I've not seen any negative side effects since using it
4. I've seen growth whereas before it was slow (perceived I guess)

Negative effect is that I have some cyno that came back on or around the time I started dosing and switch salts. This is probably not related because the bio active salt is also a form of built in carbon dosing so my nitrates bottomed out. Probably due to this but something I note. All in all it is a great product in my opinion.

Few other links but this one below is good.

DIY All-For-Reef Recipe from Tropic Marin! Thanks Zack!

Did you know you could make your own Tropic Marin All-For-Reef....cheaper than the premixed solutions?? @Zack@BRS put together the list of ingredients and demonstrates how to mix your own All-For-Reef for a fraction of the cost and the BEST part is that it's scaleable! Make a little or make a...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks! I'm checking out that link now, but I think from what you've said I'm about to give this a shot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There are loads of threads on it, and similar products have been around for many years (e.g., Salifert All In One), but the biggest concern is that one cannot readily control the needed dose by measuring alkalinity since the product does not show up quickly as alkalinity.

Tropic Marin recommends dosing based on calcium, which is a coarser way to control things and requires a learning curve.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

There are loads of threads on it, and similar products have been around for many years (e.g., Salifert All In One), but the biggest concern is that one cannot readily control the needed dose by measuring alkalinity since the product does not show up quickly as alkalinity.

Tropic Marin recommends dosing based on calcium, which is a coarser way to control things and requires a learning curve.

Any idea how long it takes for the alk to show the difference. I can test calcium, but I've got an alkatronic that I'm finally setting up and was planning to use that to monitor.

 

[burningmime]

Top add to Randy's comment above, it works by dosing calcium formate, which bacteria will break off and process into alk. Since the transition from formate to alk is done slowly, it doesn't show up right away on a test kit. But it'll all eventually get there in the right ratios. All for reef also contains some trace elements; TM makes a product called Carbocalcium which is the same thing without any trace elements.

I used it on both my old tanks once it came out, and it was awesome. However, it's VERY expensive for large systems, so I wouldn't use it on anything larger than like a 40 breeder.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any idea how long it takes for the alk to show the difference. I can test calcium, but I've got an alkatronic that I'm finally setting up and was planning to use that to monitor.

Lou Ekus suggested in some cases, it may never show up, only getting converted once the formate is taken up by corals. That's the reason for dosing based on calcium.

I personally think that if formate is accumulating, bacteria that can use it (admittedly not that many do so) will expand in numbers to fill the niche, and eventually make it more rapidly available. How long until that happens, and then how long after a dose does it show up? I do not know.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

So would someone using this not pay attention to alk at all, or would it still be necessary to maintain measurable alk levels? Also, it would seem (to someone like me who understands just enough chemistry to be dangerous) that overdosing this would be more forgiving than traditional dosing methods since alk swings wouldn't be likely and high calcium isn't typically a danger to a reef other than precipitation...or am I way off on this?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So would someone using this not pay attention to alk at all, or would it still be necessary to maintain measurable alk levels? Also, it would seem (to someone like me who understands just enough chemistry to be dangerous) that overdosing this would be more forgiving than traditional dosing methods since alk swings wouldn't be likely and high calcium isn't typically a danger to a reef other than precipitation...or am I way off on this?

I'd monitor alk, I just would not dose based solely on the alk values. You'd especially not want to use an automated alk doser based on alk measurement.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I'd monitor alk, I just would not dose based solely on the alk values. You'd especially not want to use an automated alk doser based on alk measurement.

Thanks Randy. That makes sense.

 

[User1]

There are loads of threads on it, and similar products have been around for many years (e.g., Salifert All In One), but the biggest concern is that one cannot readily control the needed dose by measuring alkalinity since the product does not show up quickly as alkalinity.

Tropic Marin recommends dosing based on calcium, which is a coarser way to control things and requires a learning curve.

Thanks for noting this. It is important and I should have said that but alas I didn't. It may be in the DIY thread or a few others Randy mentioned but there is a lag time. I was still dosing ESV Alk for a couple weeks until AFR caught up or noticed (not sure what the right term to use here is).

I checked the Tridents readings then adjust down the daily dose as needed until it was no longer increasing or dropping. Three weeks or so I think is when it seemed more stable.

Edit: I see Randy's comment above and maybe I did it wrong. I used TM's calc and set my AFR dose based off that. Then watched alk and slowly reduced until TM's product and measurements are stable. Not sure if that was the correct way.

 

[User1]

Top add to Randy's comment above, it works by dosing calcium formate, which bacteria will break off and process into alk. Since the transition from formate to alk is done slowly, it doesn't show up right away on a test kit. But it'll all eventually get there in the right ratios. All for reef also contains some trace elements; TM makes a product called Carbocalcium which is the same thing without any trace elements.

I used it on both my old tanks once it came out, and it was awesome. However, it's VERY expensive for large systems, so I wouldn't use it on anything larger than like a 40 breeder.

Have you looked at the DIY recipe I linked above? I dose it on my 210 gallon. Granted it is still maturing so its uptake isn't much at the moment @ 40 ml / day but doesn't seem bad.

 

[Rybren]

I've been using the carbo-calcium powder with some added trace elements for close to a year now. The powder isn't very expensive compared to the pre-mixed stuff (I've spent less than $50 so far). I'm dosing about 30ml per day in my 120G. My alk has held steady at 8dkh and calcium at 480ppm.

It does, however, have a carbon dosing effect, so if you are already carbon dosing, you may have to stop. I was dosing a DIY NOPOX and have stopped because nitrates bottomed out after starting with the carbo-calcium.

 

[Corgigirl]

I’ve been using the All-for-Reef for 2 months now in my 70 gallon. Using roughly 20 mls a day, Alk has been stable at 9 +/- a few tenths, calcium hangs around 490. Coral do seem to love it and I like the ease. I use Tropic Marin pro salt with it and everything seems happy. As for expense, well in this hobby, it’s just a drop in the proverbial bucket