An opinion and experience of keeping Moorish idols

[Jase4224]

I understand it’s messed up to try that many of one species of fish and continuing to fail. I would not do that. But that is exactly what built this hobby in the 70’/80’s with fish we don’t consider challenging now. Is it worse than catching and eating a herring every day? No one would criticise that. Once the fish has left the ocean its no longer contributing to the reef whether it gets flushed or eaten. At least the OP has tried to relay his experiences.

I lost a bunch of my fish 6 months ago due to velvet. This was entirely my fault as I did not QT. That horrible experience has completely changed the way I do this hobby and made me far more responsible in the way I take proactive care for my animals. If I wrote an article about how many fish I killed and what I learned should I be criticised for re stocking my tank? Perhaps. But it would be very hypocritical for reefers to criticise the very reason we have come to the level of knowledge we now have: our losses, and continual commitment to learning how to succeed.

Also when we say that Moorish Idols eat sponges and tunicates that is like saying angelfish eat corals. Ok? Which corals? It’s such a broad net. Are they fussy about the species of sponges and tunicates? There are hundreds of species. So as far as I know we don’t know which ones they actually eat. And what algae are they eating in the wild? And just because they eat these in the wild does that make it a necessity? My Majestic Angel I’ve had for 4 years has not touched a single sponge on my LR and eats all the food I give it. It does like to eat some LPS but does not require these in its diet. I wander if the key to the Moorish Idol mite be some aminos or something that is higher concentration in tunicates than in the foods we feed. I don’t believe we have the answer to this fish yet.

 

[ZanclusKeeper]

In my experience moorish idol is actually not as difficult of a fish to keep, its all about finding a healthy specimen and treating it right away. I kept many of them on pellets only, so diet is not an issue.

Regal angel on the other hand, thats a difficult fish!

my 2 cents....

 

[ZanclusKeeper]

Yes, I can confidently day that moorish idols are very very easy to get earing but almost impossible to keep alive afterwards

I would disagree, here is one i had for over 4 years that is now in a bigger tank. Moorish Idol is one of my favorite fish, its like any other fish. Make sure they are disease free and provide healthy enviorment and they will thrive...

my 2 cents...

when i first got him.


before he went to new home.

 

[Elliott ll]

In 30+ years reefing I haven't known anyone who has kept one for more than a year or so even though they've claimed they've been able to get their moorish idols to eat. I'd like to see this fish removed from availability lists myself.

I and many people have had them for over a year lol.. Easiest fish in the world to get to eat... clams and nori.

 

[Jase4224]

In my experience moorish idol is actually not as difficult of a fish to keep, its all about finding a healthy specimen and treating it right away. I kept many of them on pellets only, so diet is not an issue.

Regal angel on the other hand, thats a difficult fish!

my 2 cents....

When you say treating it right away, what is your regime?

 

[ZanclusKeeper]

When you say treating it right away, what is your regime?

Freshwater dip for flukes, if flukes present then start hypo treatment. If no flukes present straight to 4 weeks in cupramine slowly ramping up to treatment level.

Its that simple....

 

[Jase4224]

Freshwater dip for flukes, if flukes present then start hypo treatment. If no flukes present straight to 4 weeks in cupramine slowly ramping up to treatment level.

Its that simple....

Your using cupramine for velvet and ich?

 

[ZanclusKeeper]

Your using cupramine for velvet and ich?

Yes i am, as a preventive and if they are showing symptoms.

 

[Doctorgori]

old thread…. been almost a year but originally I was gonna post my idol experiences but thought I’d just add some sample to this one…
I just got my 7th Idol, and thus far I’ve only actually lost 3: 2 to an ich outbreak (and those were the last to go), 1 other lost to idol on idol murder…the others simply outgrew my tank space and they had to go
Here is my take…
- I’ve read some articles claiming you can keep multiples, I can only confirm this works with young specimens already “grouped”, my attempt grouping older idols resulted in the death of one…
-I’ve read other articles claiming they are “reef safe with caution”, not sure what that means but IME some won’t touch coral, others will leave sps alone and destroy LPS, none of them touched my hammers, torches, et…I’d say this is a huge variable…IME FEED and FEED and FEED !
-Again IME Idols are pigs (perhaps just IME) I didnt have any feeding issues for any I purchased (other than they always seemed hungry). I used live clams, oyster et to get them started but I cant confirm any particular diet either as I never witnessed any weight loss or noticed anything but greed and hunger. My first set of idols grew VERY fast on Formula Two, Tetra flake and frozen BBS (this was the 90’s and all there was) … go figure
-Idols grow fast as tangs, I’m no tang police but I’m not seeing success in anything under 100g
…again, not disputing any other experiences, just adding my sample to the mix

 

[Jase4224]

old thread…. been almost a year but originally I was gonna post my idol experiences but thought I’d just add some sample to this one…
I just got my 7th Idol, and thus far I’ve only actually lost 3: 2 to an ich outbreak (and those were the last to go), 1 other lost to idol on idol murder…the others simply outgrew my tank space and they had to go
Here is my take…
- I’ve read some articles claiming you can keep multiples, I can only confirm this works with young specimens already “grouped”, my attempt grouping older idols resulted in the death of one…
-I’ve read other articles claiming they are “reef safe with caution”, not sure what that means but IME some won’t touch coral, others will leave sps alone and destroy LPS, none of them touched my hammers, torches, et…I’d say this is a huge variable…IME FEED and FEED and FEED !
-Again IME Idols are pigs (perhaps just IME) I didnt have any feeding issues for any I purchased (other than they always seemed hungry). I used live clams, oyster et to get them started but I cant confirm any particular diet either as I never witnessed any weight loss or noticed anything but greed and hunger. My first set of idols grew VERY fast on Formula Two, Tetra flake and frozen BBS (this was the 90’s and all there was) … go figure
-Idols grow fast as tangs, I’m no tang police but I’m not seeing success in anything under 100g
…again, not disputing any other experiences, just adding my sample to the mix

Interesting. It seems like you have a quality source for healthy specimens. I’ve considered getting one as I can get it directly from the collector to my LFS where I can pick it up still in the bag. The longest the fish would be in transit in total from collector to my home would be 24-48 hours. However, with my current fish this would just be unrealistic. Viking Reef YouTube channel has some good advice on Idols and currently has one in his system.

 

[Doctorgori]

Interesting. It seems like you have a quality source for healthy specimens. I’ve considered getting one as I can get it directly from the collector to my LFS where I can pick it up still in the bag. The longest the fish would be in transit in total from collector to my home would be 24-48 hours. However, with my current fish this would just be unrealistic. Viking Reef YouTube channel has some good advice on Idols and currently has one in his system.

DrReef

 

[Leky]

In 30+ years reefing I haven't known anyone who has kept one for more than a year or so even though they've claimed they've been able to get their moorish idols to eat. I'd like to see this fish removed from availability lists myself.

I have kept a moorish idol for 4 years now .

 

[Timfish]

I have kept a moorish idol for 4 years now .

No info on feeding? maintenance regimen? tank mates? water parameters?

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

I have kept a moorish idol for 4 years now .

We've had ours for 4 years and 9 months. =)

 

[ddrake1467]

Hello there people!

Im a semi newbie in the saltwater hobby, advanced fish killer as I have kept a lot of fish to death. However I am becoming more and more aware of my fish keeping methods in the past and im now evolving and learning constantly about how to keep aquatics well animals well and about everything in this amazing hobby.
First of all, moorish idols are one of my favorite fish and I believe a lot of you guys love them as well. And would at some point of time take one of these fish home. It is undeniably true that these fish are decorations that are very appealing to the human eye but will break even with the mildest tickles. In these 3years into the saltwater side i have kept over 12 moorish idols and none of them lived to tell the story that how bad of a reefer I am. However through this species i have learnt to do intensive research on everything that i want to put in my system and providing what they need are the most important keys to success. But anyways enough of this and i will be sharing my experience and what i have learnt about the Moorish idol.

MY BRIEF UNDERSTANDING OF BIOLOGY AND BACKGROUND IN MY TINY WALNUT BRAIN:
Moorish idol or the spined moorish (Zanclus cornutus), is a species of rayed fin fish that belongs to the order Acanthuriformes, rabbitfishes, tangs and a few other families belong to this order, family Zanclidae aka moorish idols, and the species itself. My opinion, besides of the looks of the fish is special, its classification is also very interesting. It is the only living species in its family. The species have an extinct cousin tho... Eozanclus brevirostris, so they are like tangs and butterflyfish and rabbitfish but sort of in between. Moorish idols inhabit most of the tropical oceans, anywhere from the pacific, Indian ocean and what have you. Reaching up to a size of 25cm, they feed primarily on sponges and algae, as well as other benthic inverts and small animals. In large reefs they form huge schools around the reef fringes but they also live on their own or as a mated pair. Very very active fish. They are of course, mainly used for ornamental fish and in some places for food purposes(I will get to this in a sec).

MY ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCES:
Out of the 12 unlucky individuals the one that lives the longest is 3 months. Due to a velvet outbreak. However i have concluded that there are a few aspects that may be fairly important when it comes to keeping them healthy for a decent amount of time. I will be cutting those aspects into a few parts and will share my overall experience with the moorish idol. (Disclaimer, the following are not very accurate and definately not an instruction manual for success in any way).

1. TANK MATTERS
AT LEAST A 100 GALLON TANK FOR 1. Bare minimum I would say, these fish like to swim, they swim for miles in the ocean. Too small can stress them out and they would die as these things are super allergic to stress. I tried to put them in smaller tanks and they didnt live as long as the ones in my 120 gallon reef. They need a lot of space to scretch and swim.

2.PROVIDE DECENT TANK ENVIRONMENT
Please give a good and stable water quality, or else they can have ich and other protozoan diseases very quickly, these fish have a very weak immunity to such things. Also provide a scape which can provide caves to swim behind in and graze on, these fish graze all day everyday on the reefs, for any experienced hobbyists try your best to have some sponge and some algae or nori in your tank at all times to get them grazing, this can help replenish their diet so you dont have to feed often. I dont recommend a bare tank, they will be extremely stressed, if you have a large bare tank then at least put some caves in. Trust me, i tried and they dont do well in bare environments long term.

3.NO CROWDED TANKS, NO BULLIES
If you have a crowded tank and wanted to keep a moorish idol, dont even think about it. Moorish idols may seem calm when swimming with schools of other fish or its own kind in the wild but its not the case in an aquarium, having big fish bumping around and killer damsels side by side is nothing similar to the ocean, moorish idols also fight one and other until one is left. I would suggest its best to add ONE morish idol to a spacious reef tank that is lightly stocked and has open spaces. Avoid too much tangs, other moorish idols and generally aggressive fish is the way to go. Or simply add the moorish idol early on and add the aggressive fish later so to provide time for the idol to settle in. Moorish idols doesnt take bullying kindly and if it is overly stressed or being injured by other fish then you would most likely find ich or velvet all over its body if the issue is not addressed well. And they are hard to treat as well.

4.CHOOSE A HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL FROM A GOOD SOURCE
Ok after you got your tank to meet moorish idol standards, the next step is to buy yourself the right fish. I suggest to buy a moorish idol that is either freshly shipped( buy straight with the bag) or a moorish idol that is very established and stayed healthy in a healthy system for a long time (Getting one from other hobbyists, or fish out a very generous amount of cash and ask the shop owner for that 3 year old idol in his display). Before you curse me down in the comments please hear me out. The reason I suggest to buy straight with the bag is because the holding tanks in some shops do not have very good water quality and may be jam packed with fish, the food competition and the stress is also very intense so the idol might be starved, these are the places where fish diseases are very common. The idol will likely get those diseases shorty after exposure to the infested water, the fish in the holding tanks might also injure the idol as the place is way too crowded and stressful. So you might be getting a sick and injured moorish idol at the end of the day. While the idols are usually packed individually for shipping so they do not share water, thus chances of being infected are technically lower. So it might be better off to buy it before it got exposed to infested water. Getting a very established idol can increase success drastically because it is likely to be adapted to captive environments. While choosing the fish, observe the fish for a few minutes to see for any obvious signs of diseases or parasites and any weird behaviour, if you see one that has spots all over, head twitching, heavy breathing, clamped fins, damaged or completely dislodged dorsal spine, thin body with its spine visible, injuries, laying on its side etc, AVOID AT ALL COSTS. A healthy idol should be fat, swimming smoothly, chasing other fish, looking around and pecking here and there. Also if you have the chance please do ask the retailer to feed it, if it eats then that might be a good specimen to start with. Also choose idols which are 2.5 to 4 inches. Too small cant handle shipping well and too large rarely adapt well to captive life. Moorish idols in my city are dirt cheap, usually I pay for about 40 to 60 Hong Kong dollars(5 to 7.5 USD) for a 3 inch. Very cheap but the quality are usually very bad.

The average environment of an LFS here in Hong Kong, this is a well known fish store that has a very interesting way of selling fish. they put fish into small cubicles which are connected to a same sump, and customers can get a net and a cup to scoop out the fish they want, bring it to a counter and the employees there will bag em up and ask you to pay. Unfortunately i cant blame anyone for treating fish like this, it is a reality here.

Another cool thing, as said moorish idols are found around almost all tropical oceans, single or small groups of moorish idols can be found around Hong Kong's wasteland oceans. Sometimes in rare occasions moorish idols are accidentally being caught by local fishermen and they will sell those in seafood markets at a jaw-droppingly cheap price, ive tried to obtain one and quararntine them, but those are usually quite huge( usually 5 to 7 inches) and are almost impossible to keep because a most of them are severely injured by nets and the fishemen normally dont know how to handle them.

This one is sitting right around a corner in a seafood store, photo credit from another hobbyist.

According to him and after talking to other people on Facebook, people claim that they taste like triggerfish and filefish but in between, rough texture and has a strong taste of seaweed to it. There are also some Japanese recipes on moorish idols on the internet. As a matter of fact i would like to try one if i can find one. Hopefully I can write a food review thread here on R2R lol.

5.PRACTICE QT! THATS AN ORDER
Please quarantine your fragile moorish idol, i know it must be very tempting to put your moorish idol in your DT right away, but i hereby STRONGLY WARN that you MUST NOT do this in the name of the safety of your DT and your idol. Please QT your idol for a period of time before adding it to your DT. In my opinion its just not only for quarantine, you should keep your idol in that holding tank for an extended time to observe it and condition it. I tried to get a large non transparent tub from IKEA and it does better than transparent tanks. The tub must be as big as possible. I live in a very small apartment, the best i can do is a 40 gallon tub. For you house dwellers I think the bigger the better. Then treat that QT tub as another DT as you should keep the idol in there for like 2 months. Here is a checklist of what I bought to set up this QT.

1.Big a** non transparent tub (reduces stress and can avoid the scratching of its beak, broken beaks will stop them from eating ), bigger the better
2.PVC pipes for the idol to retreat in (rarely)
3.A few pieces of CLEAN live rock, even better if the rocks have sponges growing on them.( optional as it can harbor and breed parasites)
4.Salt (for water changes, you will be doing this more frequently)
5.A hang on back filter (Highly recommend as they are east to maintain)
6.A light (keep a regular day night cycle, or similar to your DT)
7.Meds (copper, prazi, formalin etc)
8.Disposable filter media (sponge or cheap bio rings)
9.Powerhead or pump

I suggest to set up the QT some time before you get your idol as you should cycle it with high quality bacteria, I used API quick start, Seachem stability and Microbacter start XLM, can get the job done if you only have 1 fish in a big system. Idols are really better of in cycled water. Do 100 percent water changes quite constantly and run the tank with hyposalinity. Moorish idols can have fluke, ich or velvet outbreaks frequently when newly added so remember to do short FWBs in advance. I use cheap filter media is because i can toss them into the trash and refill the new ones in, the big 2 (ich and velvet) can attach themselves on those materials easily. I found tossing them out and add new ones in while doing complete water changes are really effective on keeping parasites at bay. And keep the water parameters stable, in stable water the idols are less stressed and chances of having diseases will be a lot lower. To ensure bacterial presence in the media, I kept the whole sack of disposable media in my DT sump to let bacteria to seed it. Avoid the reliance of meds and pre treated water as in my experience moorish idols do a lot worse when in medicated water constantly. Of course use the meds accordingly only when necessary. Keep the idol in the QT for 2 months and the longer the better, this is to let your idol to adapt to captive life and get used to your food, they need more time to adapt than other fish. Overtime the idol should have disease outbreaks less often and fattens up if given the right food and environment. When it is really healthy and is disease free for a long time, add to your DT slowly and best in a breeder or isolation box, it will be easier to catch once it has diseases again or anything bad happens, as well as allowing interaction between it and the tank gang.

6.FEED PROPERLY
People always claim that moorish idols are extremely hard when it comes to getting it to eat, i think it is the complete opposite though, among the 12 unfortunate individuals, 11 of them ate fiercely almost instantly the second I put the in QT, if you chose a decent quality fish they will eat pellets readily. In the wild idols mainly graze on sponges, tunicates and algae all day long. So remember to try different foods with some sponge in it, or add sponge amino acids into the food, also feed high fibre vegetable base foods. They must be fed a lot of times a day to cope up with their high metabolic rate or else they will wither quickly, there should also be something in the tank for them to graze. The longest idol ive kept, I fed it with Hikari seaweed extreme, Hikari algae wafers and hikari marine S pellets dipped in Brightwell phytochrom and Angelixr. Fed small amounts 5 to 12 times a day. And provide nori, cabbage and peas on a clip to let them graze, i also collected some sponge at the pier behind my school during lunchtime and chuck into the freezer, i fed it like this in DT and in QT. The idol turns out to be very fat and healthy until the DT velvet apocalypse struck. Unfortunately Hikari mega marine angel is not available in Hong Kong or else it can make things easier. These are not the fish that only need a few sprinkles of food every other day.

CONCLUSION
Ive failed to keep moorish idol alive for a long time but i tried my best. Moorish idols are really really fragile and not for me whiny noobs, and should be left for you pros out there, must need a lot of time and dedication to have little chances of success, im just here to share my experiences and give some anecdotal advice on the husbandry of these fish, and really want to discuss about this interesting species with someone. Hope yall have a great day and please look forward for my food review on a moorish idol. Really passionate on this hobby and I HAVE to write this even my finals starts tomorrow. Happy reefing everyone!

It sounds like you’ve been trying hard to figure out the way to keep this fish. It’s one of my favorite fish so I appreciate your efforts and understand the reason why you want to keep them…as hard as the losses are to hear about (which I’m sure you’ve already beat yourself up about plenty.) I suggest watching Ryan’s top 10 difficult fish countdown with his fish supplier where they discuss the moorish idol. And consider getting yours from where he got his if possible. I’m just returning to the hobby myself and the amount of new information is insane. In just this last decade people and companies are doing things we never dreamed of in earlier years. It seems like nori and other clip on algae’s and fibrous diets seem to work best with non aggressive tank mates don’t seem to be reef safe either from what I’ve read. I plan to put this new info for keeping moorish idols to the test myself when I’m finally ready to attempt that. Definitely plan on running uv to limit unwanted parasites before and after QT. Keep your head up re evaluate and maybe think about posing the question of how to keep a moorish idol successfully in brs page on facebook to fill in blanks. Wealth of knowledge and very nice folks! Good luck and happy reefing