anemone dying?

[Stv]

Hi guys, totally new to this hobby and have a concern. I have a bio cube 32 and added my first anemone a week ago. The tank is simple. just a small clown and diamond gobby, plus CUC and a cleaner shrimp. The tank is newer but was started with 15 year old rock that was thriving and it completely cycled in 72 hours. T was two months ago. All parameters seems in line with actually 0 amn, nit, nat. green, purple and brown algae present and in control.

The first few days the anemone looked amazing but tended to move to lower areas and under overhangs. The last three days, he's completely upside down under a rock and has not shown his tentacles for three days. he's seems still attached well, I fed a little reef rods and no change at all. Interesting enough, my one very small coral frag (added a month ago) seemed to shrink up completely the same day and has come back out at all. They were never close to each other. any advise? I can't get the the bubble anemone to look into its mouth.

 

[MaxTremors]

Running a UV, skimmer, water temp 78.3. Water quality is great. All algae’s present but not going crazy. The rock is really really mature and why I took the risk.

A couple things, you don’t know that your water quality is great if you can’t test for NO3, Alk, Mag, and Cal. Also, that rock doesn’t really look like mature live rock (unless it was base rock or hasn’t been under lights for a very, very long time - mature live rock is generally covered in coralline algae). Where did you get it? How do you know it’s matured for 15 years?

Your coral (it’s a Duncan coral), is kind of considered a ‘canary in the coal mine’ kind of coral in that it’s really hardy but will visibly let you know when your water quality is not good. So despite your assertion that your water quality is great, your coral is trying to tell you something.

As far as anemones in newer tanks (what kind of anemone is it?), part of it is having a mature bacterial population, but the other part is that mature tanks have more stable parameters (the bacteria is part of this), and even with mature live rock a couple month old tank still isn’t going to be fully stable. Also, the stock lighting in the biocube generally isn’t adequate for anemones. You can keep some maxi mini carpet anemones or some rock flowers, but a bta, regular carpet, condylactus, sebae, etc aren’t going to do well under biocube lighting.

Algae being present doesn’t really mean anything other than that you may have excess nutrients, an immature tank (you can have algae in any tank, but it’s more common in newer tanks), flow issues, or lighting issues.

The sum of all of this is, and the most immediate issue, is that you likely have a water quality issue. I would definitely recommend getting test kits for Alkalinity, Phosphate, Calcium, Magnesium, and PH, and from there we can trouble shoot once we know where you parameters are. Going forward, once you’ve gotten your water quality straightened out, I would suggest starting slowly with some hardy soft corals (leathers, mushrooms, zoanthids, Xenia, GSP, etc), and once you’ve kept them alive for a good six months, then try some LPS (like your Duncan, Euphyllia/Fimbriphyllia, acans/micromussa, blastomussa, etc), and then after a year or so of your tank thriving, then try an anemone.

I hope I didn’t come across as condescending and I hope all of this info isn’t discouraging, you’ll get this sorted out and if you’re patient and do lots of research, you will have a thriving tank in no time.

 

[Stv]

A couple things, you don’t know that your water quality is great if you can’t test for NO3, Alk, Mag, and Cal. Also, that rock doesn’t really look like mature live rock (unless it was base rock or hasn’t been under lights for a very, very long time - mature live rock is generally covered in coralline algae). Where did you get it? How do you know it’s matured for 15 years?

Your coral (it’s a Duncan coral), is kind of considered a ‘canary in the coal mine’ kind of coral in that it’s really hardy but will visibly let you know when your water quality is not good. So despite your assertion that your water quality is great, your coral is trying to tell you something.

As far as anemones in newer tanks (what kind of anemone is it?), part of it is having a mature bacterial population, but the other part is that mature tanks have more stable parameters (the bacteria is part of this), and even with mature live rock a couple month old tank still isn’t going to be fully stable. Also, the stock lighting in the biocube generally isn’t adequate for anemones. You can keep some maxi mini carpet anemones or some rock flowers, but a bta, regular carpet, condylactus, sebae, etc aren’t going to do well under biocube lighting.

Algae being present doesn’t really mean anything other than that you may have excess nutrients, an immature tank (you can have algae in any tank, but it’s more common in newer tanks), flow issues, or lighting issues.

The sum of all of this is, and the most immediate issue, is that you likely have a water quality issue. I would definitely recommend getting test kits for Alkalinity, Phosphate, Calcium, Magnesium, and PH, and from there we can trouble shoot once we know where you parameters are. Going forward, once you’ve gotten your water quality straightened out, I would suggest starting slowly with some hardy soft corals (leathers, mushrooms, zoanthids, Xenia, GSP, etc), and once you’ve kept them alive for a good six months, then try some LPS (like your Duncan, Euphyllia/Fimbriphyllia, acans/micromussa, blastomussa, etc), and then after a year or so of your tank thriving, then try an anemone.

I hope I didn’t come across as condescending and I hope all of this info isn’t discouraging, you’ll get this sorted out and if you’re patient and do lots of research, you will have a thriving tank in no time.

Thank you so much for the info. It’s what I need to hear. Respect and appreciate it all. Ordering a different test kit to get those numbers. Thanks again so much.

 

[Stv]

Everyone asked for parameters so got testing kits and here it is. Does any of this help anyone with what my problems might be?


PH 8.25

Salinity. 34.1ppt. 1.0253 SG

420ppm calcium

KH carbonate hardness 250ppm

Phos .25ppm

Nitrate 0-0.20ppm

 

[Stv]

Dkh is 14

 

[Stv]

Thank you so much for the info. It’s what I need to hear. Respect and appreciate it all. Ordering a different test kit to get those numbers. Thanks again so much.

Posted parameters below. Any thoughts? DKH is 14 as well. I didn’t post that on accident.

 

[MaxTremors]

Posted parameters below. Any thoughts? DKH is 14 as well. I didn’t post that on accident.

Phos a little high (what is the resolution on your test kit? What is the range?), but wouldn’t be causing the issues you’re seeing (could cause slow tissue recession). The main concern is the DKH, it’s way, way too high. Are you dosing any additives (because no salt should be mixing that high)? You need to get that lower. I would perform a fairly large water change. I know a lot of people will tell you to lower it slowly, I disagree, I think your corals staying at that high a dkh is going to be more damaging that a reduction of 3-4dkh. I would start with a 20% water change every day until the dkh is within range (7-12, i shoot for around 8.5, natural seawater is around 7, but getting it down to 10-11 should help improve the situation). Make sure to test the new water to make sure it’s lower than your tanks so you’re actually lowering it. Also, stop dosing any alk if you are. Keep monitoring it and once you get it down to an acceptable range, work on keeping it stable (get a reef calculator app if/once you resume dosing anything. ).

 

[Stv]

Phos a little high (what is the resolution on your test kit? What is the range?), but wouldn’t be causing the issues you’re seeing (could cause slow tissue recession). The main concern is the DKH, it’s way, way too high. Are you dosing any additives (because no salt should be mixing that high)? You need to get that lower. I would perform a fairly large water change. I know a lot of people will tell you to lower it slowly, I disagree, I think your corals staying at that high a dkh is going to be more damaging that a reduction of 3-4dkh. I would start with a 20% water change every day until the dkh is within range (7-12, i shoot for around 8.5, natural seawater is around 7, but getting it down to 10-11 should help improve the situation). Make sure to test the new water to make sure it’s lower than your tanks so you’re actually lowering it. Also, stop dosing any alk if you are. Keep monitoring it and once you get it down to an acceptable range, work on keeping it stable (get a reef calculator app if/once you resume dosing anything. ).

Okay I’ll do just that and thanks. Yeah it’s odd cause no dosing going on at all and water is store bought.

 

[Jekyl]

Okay I’ll do just that and thanks. Yeah it’s odd cause no dosing going on at all and water is store bought.

Your nitrate is also too low. Feed a little bit more than currently. Double check the test to make sure no discrepancies or even try retesting to be sure. No salt mix will be that high on its own.

 

[Stv]

Phos a little high (what is the resolution on your test kit? What is the range?), but wouldn’t be causing the issues you’re seeing (could cause slow tissue recession). The main concern is the DKH, it’s way, way too high. Are you dosing any additives (because no salt should be mixing that high)? You need to get that lower. I would perform a fairly large water change. I know a lot of people will tell you to lower it slowly, I disagree, I think your corals staying at that high a dkh is going to be more damaging that a reduction of 3-4dkh. I would start with a 20% water change every day until the dkh is within range (7-12, i shoot for around 8.5, natural seawater is around 7, but getting it down to 10-11 should help improve the situation). Make sure to test the new water to make sure it’s lower than your tanks so you’re actually lowering it. Also, stop dosing any alk if you are. Keep monitoring it and once you get it down to an acceptable range, work on keeping it stable (get a reef calculator app if/once you resume dosing anything. ).

I’m so confused now because I’m not dosing anything and I’m using store bought natural sea water. If the salinity is low I top up with sea water. If it’s high I top up with RODI. IM GOING TO TEST BOTH MY TOP UPS AND SEE WHATS HAPPENING.

 

[Jekyl]

I’m so confused now because I’m not dosing anything and I’m using store bought natural sea water. If the salinity is low I top up with sea water. If it’s high I top up with RODI. IM GOING TO TEST BOTH MY TOP UPS AND SEE WHATS HAPPENING.

What about your method for testing the salinity? Do you calibrate it before use? Reading could be off causing high salinity and alk at the same time. I've never had to top off with saltwater.

 

[Stv]

What about your method for testing the salinity? Do you calibrate it before use? Reading could be off causing high salinity and alk at the same time. I've never had to top off with saltwater.

the salt water was at 7.6. The fresh water was at 12. They told me it was RODI but evidently it’s just RO then filtered and that’s been the majority of what I’ve been topping up with. So it’s starting to make some sense with all of your guys input and suggestions. I just did a 10% change with salt water and it’s down to 12 now from 14. I’m out of salt water or I would have done your suggestion of 20%. I’ll do that tomorrow. I don’t have a way to get true RODI or I’d make my own.

 

[Stv]

the salt water was at 7.6. The fresh water was at 12. They told me it was RODI but evidently it’s just RO then filtered and that’s been the majority of what I’ve been topping up with. So it’s starting to make some sense with all of your guys input and suggestions. I just did a 10% change with salt water and it’s down to 12 now from 14. I’m out of salt water or I would have done your suggestion of 20%. I’ll do that tomorrow. I don’t have a way to get true RODI or I’d make my own.

And testing is the old school test tube and drops. I know, you don’t have to say it…. . As I said, you guys are teaching me so much so fast. Testing methods will change very soon when I don’t have to spend $40 a day of water change outs.

 

[Dolphins18]

BTA's like some nitrate and some phosphate. They actually thrive in it compared to a nutrient stripped system. 14 DKH is a bit on the high side however, I am not sure that number is right. I don't often see newer tanks with high DKH, typically its the opposite. If you have a LFS and can take some water there it can help verify validity of tests without needing to buy more kits. If you do this, don't have them test SG as that will change with temp.
The other thing about BTA's is when they are wild caught, they take a very long time to adjust to tank life. Sometimes months, this is not terribly bad and doesn't necessarily mean they are dying. It is bleached, but that really isn't too big a deal, it will come toward the light once it is comfortable.

 

[Stv]

Wel well, look who came out to play two hours after making all those corrections. . You guys rock!!! Thank you all for your help in identifying the high alk issue and what to do about it both now and prevention tips.

 

[MaxTremors]

the salt water was at 7.6. The fresh water was at 12. They told me it was RODI but evidently it’s just RO then filtered and that’s been the majority of what I’ve been topping up with. So it’s starting to make some sense with all of your guys input and suggestions. I just did a 10% change with salt water and it’s down to 12 now from 14. I’m out of salt water or I would have done your suggestion of 20%. I’ll do that tomorrow. I don’t have a way to get true RODI or I’d make my own.

I would really recommend getting your own RODI unit, you don’t have to get the most expensive one. Right now I’m using probably the cheapest one on the market, it’s slow and has a lot of waste water, but I’m getting 0 tds water out of it (my tap is like 160tds), search for the 50gpd aquatic life RODI unit on Amazon, it’s $60 and will give you at least 6 months worth of water, if not a year, and then the replacement cartridges are like $15 (you’ll also need a tds meter and a pressure gauge, each around $10). And then choose a salt that mixes at the parameters you’re aiming for (again, doesn’t have to be the most expensive salt, I use a middle of the road one, Fritz RPM, and I’ve had great results with it). I go through probably a 50g bag of salt every two months, but I buy the 200g box, so $60 worth of salt lasts around 8 months, so $90 per year and then $75 for the RODI unit, so around $165 a year for saltwater (300 gallons of salt water, which equals around $0.50 per gallon). My tank only has around 20 gallons of actual water in it, so depending on your tank size, that may be more or less. I also do a 20% water change weekly (though I will likely cut that back to biweekly soon). My point is, it’s far, far cheaper to make your own water. Plus you can control the parameters a little better.

If the fresh water you’re getting from the lfs has an alkalinity of 12, and then you’re adding salt on top of that, you’re lucky that your tank’s alk was only 14! This is why I don’t buy water from the LFS, you just never know if they’re changing their filter cartridges/membranes, if they’re flushing the lines, or if they’re cutting corners somewhere. When you have thousands of dollars worth of fish and corals, you want to eliminate as many chances for something to go wrong as possible, and trusting someone else to make your water is one of those chances I just won’t take. Anyway, something to think about for the future.

 

[Stv]

I would really recommend getting your own RODI unit, you don’t have to get the most expensive one. Right now I’m using probably the cheapest one on the market, it’s slow and has a lot of waste water, but I’m getting 0 tds water out of it (my tap is like 160tds), search for the 50gpd aquatic life RODI unit on Amazon, it’s $60 and will give you at least 6 months worth of water, if not a year, and then the replacement cartridges are like $15 (you’ll also need a tds meter and a pressure gauge, each around $10). And then choose a salt that mixes at the parameters you’re aiming for (again, doesn’t have to be the most expensive salt, I use a middle of the road one, Fritz RPM, and I’ve had great results with it). I go through probably a 50g bag of salt every two months, but I buy the 200g box, so $60 worth of salt lasts around 8 months, so $90 per year and then $75 for the RODI unit, so around $165 a year for saltwater (300 gallons of salt water, which equals around $0.50 per gallon). My tank only has around 20 gallons of actual water in it, so depending on your tank size, that may be more or less. I also do a 20% water change weekly (though I will likely cut that back to biweekly soon). My point is, it’s far, far cheaper to make your own water. Plus you can control the parameters a little better.

If the fresh water you’re getting from the lfs has an alkalinity of 12, and then you’re adding salt on top of that, you’re lucky that your tank’s alk was only 14! This is why I don’t buy water from the LFS, you just never know if they’re changing their filter cartridges/membranes, if they’re flushing the lines, or if they’re cutting corners somewhere. When you have thousands of dollars worth of fish and corals, you want to eliminate as many chances for something to go wrong as possible, and trusting someone else to make your water is one of those chances I just won’t take. Anyway, something to think about for the future.

Dry well spoken and thanks for the real down. Makes sense when it’s put like that.

 

[Stv]

Dry well spoken and thanks for the real down. Makes sense when it’s put like that.

Wow. Sorry. Very well spoken thanks for the breakdown.

 

[Stv]

Wel well, look who came out to play two hours after making all those corrections. . You guys rock!!! Thank you all for your help in identifying the high alk issue and what to do about it both now and prevention tips.

I’m so confused now because I’m not dosing anything and I’m using store bought natural sea water. If the salinity is low I top up with sea water. If it’s high I top up with RODI. IM GOING TO TEST BOTH MY TOP UPS AND SEE WHATS HAPPENING.

Okay so I think I figured out what’s making the alk so high. In combo of the fresh water I top up with being at 11KH, my PH has been in the 7.7-8.0 range and I have been using seachem reef buffer 8.3 to correct it and the bottle says it raises alk as well so in theory, the combo of the water and these additions have spiked the KH and are the root of the issue it seems.

question is, what can I use to raise the PH without raising the alk and or, is the PH okay being that low? Thanks again for all your help guys.

 

[Stv]

Wel well, look who came out to play two hours after making all those corrections. . You guys rock!!! Thank you all for your help in identifying the high alk issue and what to do about it both now and prevention tips.

 

[MaxTremors]

Wel well, look who came out to play two hours after making all those corrections. . You guys rock!!! Thank you all for your help in identifying the high alk issue and what to do about it both now and prevention tips.


Okay so I think I figured out what’s making the alk so high. In combo of the fresh water I top up with being at 11KH, my PH has been in the 7.7-8.0 range and I have been using seachem reef buffer 8.3 to correct it and the bottle says it raises alk as well so in theory, the combo of the water and these additions have spiked the KH and are the root of the issue it seems.

question is, what can I use to raise the PH without raising the alk and or, is the PH okay being that low? Thanks again for all your help guys.

You’re PH being 7.8-8 won’t hurt anything. The only downsides to PH that low is that coralline is less likely to grow, stony corals will grow more slowly, and tridacnid clams shouldn’t be kept at a PH below 8. Unless you’re farming coral or want really fast growth, there’s no reason IMO to chase after raising your PH a couple tenths of a point.