Anyone else, palytoxin related question, LFS?

[Eric R.]

Man, there’s a lot of “I’ve driven my car without seatbelts for 20 years! You don’t need to wear seatbelts, only people that drive unsafely and crash their car need to worry about seatbelts. I’ve never heard of anyone getting hurt not wearing a seatbelt” sort of thinking going on. There’s plenty of folks that are very experienced that have had serious issues with palythoa that haven’t just put them in an oven. Folks, please make sure you’ve considered their stories before you go around bragging about how safe palythoa are. Joe Yaiullo, James Biggers. Maybe different people react differently, but just because you’re fine doesn’t mean everyone will be. I think it’s good to let people have all the information and take whatever approach makes them feel comfortable once they have the information. There are lots of other nice looking corals you can keep in the hobby that are probably safer.

As far as the issue OP brought up with kids at an LFS, I think it’s very unlikely to ever be an issue, and I’m someone that thinks it’s not a good idea to keep palythoa in an aquarium. If the kids enjoy the LFS, I would keep taking them.

 

[VintageReefer]

Understandable.
If that brings you ease, then thats just fine.

Chances are your LFS isn’t fragging anything in the store, they buy from a wholesaler and put in the display / sale tanks.

If they are a store with ability to frag it’s probably in a back room, and not done by some young kid. I’d be surprised if they were taking out dremels, scalpels and a band saw in the main store where customers visit.

 

[Uncle99]

Chances are your LFS isn’t fragging anything in the store, they buy from a wholesaler and put in the display / sale tanks.

If they are a store with ability to frag it’s probably in a back room, and not done by some young kid. I’d be surprised if they were taking out dremels, scalpels and a band saw in the main store where customers visit.

I think there’s virtually zero chance of palytoxin poisoning, but if it makes them feel better, that’s a good thing.

 

[IceNein]

People are giving you grief over this, but I totally understand why you are concerned. The facts are that palytoxin is potentially fatal, and there is no cure or anti-venom for it. If you go into the hospital, all they can do is treat your symptoms and it will eventually run its course, or it will kill you.

However, as dangerous as palytoxin is, a happy healthy paly or zoa has palytoxin inside of them. If the water were full of palytoxin then your other inhabitants wouldn't be doing so well. Apparently palytoxin inhibits the sodium potassium pump, which is what allows your cells to take things outside of it, and put them inside. Without this pump, a cell will essentially cease functioning. All animals use the sodium potassium pump, so it's not just somehow toxic to humans.

So you need to do something that causes your paly/zoa to release extra palytoxin, and then on top of that you need to get it into your body. If you have cuts on your hands or arms, you shouldn't be reaching into your tank. Even if you don't, and you do reach into your tank, you should wash your hands before eating/drinking/smoking to make sure that you're not getting tank water into your mouth.

So if your children are old enough to follow instructions, tell them that they should not touch the tank water, and then tell them to wash their hands as soon as you get home. Right there you have reduced the risk of getting palytoxin significantly.

Honestly it is more likely that you will get some sort of bacterial infection from a tank than to get killed by palytoxin.

 

[exnisstech]

Am I the only one who quit taking my kids to the LFS after learning about palytoxin?

Well so far I think the answer is yes ;)

I just added my first on Saturday. It was exactly what my tank was missing.

That colony in my pic…started out as 8 polyps mounted on flat 2x2 (maybe 3x3) tile. There is nothing under it to give this dome shape, the stalks are THAT long. probaby 5” stalks

This was 1 year after I got it

Those paly grandis have been bullet proof for me. I've had them for years. Some survived 6 months in a dark brute container container with just flow and no heat.

 

[KrisReef]

My kids are both real young and after reading the horror stories about palytoxin I just sort of thought to myself why even bother exposing a 25lb child to palytoxin in a LFS. Its like do i really trust the 16 year old kid fragging grandis minutes before i walk into the store lol?

I don't even keep zoas or palys any longer in my tank TBH.

As a side note to ppl suggesting that I may be some type of helicopter parent, I'm really not Lol. The palytoxin rabbit hole just freaked me out a bit.

Caution is good.

 

[Tahoe61]

I am embarrassed and shocked by the pile on mentalities to the premise of the poster.
There's a nice way to address the concerns, and than there is the cheap shot bully mentality.
The topic is complicated, not everyone is versed in Polytoxin facts or antidotal experiences.
Come on hobbyists have the posters back!

 

[Sump Crab]

I am embarrassed and shocked by the pile on mentalities to the premise of the poster.
There's a nice way to address the concerns, and than there is the cheap shot bully mentality.
The topic is complicated, not everyone is versed in Polytoxin facts or antidotal experiences.
Come on hobbyists have the posters back!

I'm really not worried about any cheap shots or bullying although I do appreciate you stepping up into my corner friend! The truth is a lot of the activities I do with my kids might be perceived as dangerous by many of the ppl who think I'm crazy about not taking them to the LFS. We enjoy fishing, hunting, gardening, hiking, and a ton of other outdoor activities as a family. To some the idea of taking a 7 year old deer hunting might sound crazy lol.

 

[VintageReefer]

I am embarrassed and shocked by the pile on mentalities to the premise of the poster.
There's a nice way to address the concerns, and than there is the cheap shot bully mentality.
The topic is complicated, not everyone is versed in Polytoxin facts or antidotal experiences.
Come on hobbyists have the posters back!

I sometimes come across as blunt but I hope not offensive. I understand the fear but wish to express it’s a non-issue. If OP was talking about fragging corals in his garage with three kids nearby watching, it would be a different response from me. But going in a LFS is zero chance of issue, unless it’s bring a paly to frag day lol

 

[Tahoe61]

I sometimes come across as blunt but I hope not offensive. I understand the fear but wish to express it’s a non-issue. If OP was talking about fragging corals in his garage with three kids nearby watching, it would be a different response from me. But going in a LFS is zero chance of issue, unless it’s bring a paly to frag day lol

Not offensive in the least. I learned the hard way about palys before it was common knowledge. Even today I have to. remind myself. You're all good in my book.

 

[FUNGI]

The drive in the car to the LFS is much more statistically dangerous than palytoxin because your kids are not going to be putting palys in their eyes/wounds at the LFS.

And not to scare you but not only palys have palytoxin... some cyanobacteria has it... and fairly certain some dino too...

So technically one should not have a tank at all if they are trying to 100% avoid palytoxin but having a body of water in the house is more dangerous to young children than what it is it.

I didn't bring my young kid to the LFS but that was because the LFS had teeny tiny pathways and he was a tornado until about 2.5. Bull in china shop for real.

 

[Reefering1]

I would be much more concerned sending them to school that walking through a lfs...

 

[John Neuzil]

Thats quite the over reaction.

 

[Kmst80]

Am I the only one who quit taking my kids to the LFS after learning about palytoxin?

The drive to the lfs would be much more dangerous yet you do it.

 

[Kmst80]

Wait until you hear about the electricity in the walls. You might never flip a light switch again!

And the birds are spy's from the government that charge on the powerlines?

 

[Reefering1]

And the birds are spy's from the government that charge on the powerlines?

 

[BlueSkyAT]

I am embarrassed and shocked by the pile on mentalities to the premise of the poster.
There's a nice way to address the concerns, and than there is the cheap shot bully mentality.
The topic is complicated, not everyone is versed in Polytoxin facts or antidotal experiences.
Come on hobbyists have the posters back!

I didn`t read any of these comments to be cheap shot, bullying. Nothing seemed negative or derogatory. Just honest answers/opinions. I mean it probably is way more dangerous to drive to the lfs.

 

[ileolai]

i get you. i have legitimate ocd and i am paranoid about everything, so for the longest time i avoided zoas like the plague thinking i would accidentally un-alive myself if i forgot to wash my hands one time after putting them in tank water or something. then i had a bunch of them hitchhike in on some liverock and well, i'm not dead yet...

 

[voelter76]

Blown way out of proportion. Risk is essentially zero unless they are literally cooking palythoa in an oven, or cutting up playthoa grandis on a chopping board

Look at my mountain of them, one polyp is the size of a full plug of favia

I am not concerned at all and work barehand in my tank

So I should cancel my plan to add them to the Christmas stuffing?

 

[voelter76]

In all honesty I used to be quite paranoid about palys. I’ve never had any issues though and neither has anyone I know. I work with far more dangerous things every day at work. The key is be respectful but not afraid.