Apex - ATO failsafe - if on for amount of time then off?

jd-woodlands · Feb 10, 2019

I just had another ATO issue with my IM Hydrofill Ti where the sensors did not work and almost overflowed my tank again. Along with that I had a nice 6ppt salinity drop along with this which luckily I was able to correct in about 45 minutes (the reason I bought an apex a month ago was because of this same issue).

I want to program some fail safes in to Apex to shut off the ATO when it malfunctions and wanted some logic similar to this:

If ATO is on for X amount of minutes / seconds then off

I already put in a salinity condition to turn off the ATO if it hits 34ppt, I still want some other option as well.

I plan to pick up some float sensors and use a break out box as a future fail safe as well.

If anyone has any other ideas as well I am open to any and all so this doesn’t happen any more.

rkpetersen · Feb 10, 2019

The problem is that it's not straightforward for the Apex to know whether the ATO is working properly or not; more specifically, to know how long the ATO controller has been supplying power to the pump. As far as the Apex is concerned, the ATO is 'always on'. The ATO sends no information on its functional state to the Apex.

The Neptune ATK has the functionality you're looking for built in, although I understand that you're looking for a way to work with what you have.

One idea, which I haven't tried myself, is to look at the power draw of your ATO through the Apex, comparing how many watts it uses when it's powered up and idle, versus when it's actively dispensing water. This presumes that the ATO is plugged into an EB832, and can be viewed from the Apex Input Log page; pull down the Select a Chart to the Energy Data section, and then pick the 'W' reading for your ATO. If there's a significant and consistent difference, you could then use this input to cut power to the ATO if the wattage stayed at the higher pumping level for too long. To do this, you might create a latching virtual output like this:

[ATOError]
If Output [ATO Name] Watts > XX Then ON
Defer 005:00 Then ON

Put the VO on your dashboard and set it to AUTO.

Then, in the code for the ATO, put at the bottom:
If Output ATOError = ON Then OFF

Also, in your text/email code, put:
If Output ATOError = ON Then ON

With this code, whenever your ATO device draws more than XX watts of power for more than 5 minutes continuously, the Apex will shut it off and send you an alert. The ATO won't be able to draw power again until you manually switch ATOError to OFF and then back to AUTO.

An additional float sensor + BOB or optical sensor + FMM to detect an abnormally high water level would also be a good idea, as you suggest.

jd-woodlands · Feb 10, 2019

rkpetersen said:
The problem is that it's not straightforward for the Apex to know whether the ATO is working properly or not; more specifically, to know how long the ATO controller has been supplying power to the pump. As far as the Apex is concerned, the ATO is 'always on'. The ATO sends no information on its functional state to the Apex.

The Neptune ATK has the functionality you're looking for built in, although I understand that you're looking for a way to work with what you have.

One idea, which I haven't tried myself, is to look at the power draw of your ATO through the Apex, comparing how many watts it uses when it's powered up and idle, versus when it's actively dispensing water. This presumes that the ATO is plugged into an EB832, and can be viewed from the Apex Input Log page; pull down the Select a Chart to the Energy Data section, and then pick the 'W' reading for your ATO. If there's a significant and consistent difference, you could then use this input to cut power to the ATO if the wattage stayed at the higher pumping level for too long. To do this, you might create a latching virtual output like this:

[ATOError]
If Output [ATO Name] Watts > XX Then ON
Defer 005:00 Then ON

Put the VO on your dashboard and set it to AUTO.

Then, in the code for the ATO, put at the bottom:
If Output ATOError = ON Then OFF

Also, in your text/email code, put:
If Output ATOError = ON Then ON

With this code, whenever your ATO device draws more than XX watts of power for more than 5 minutes continuously, the Apex will shut it off and send you an alert. The ATO won't be able to draw power again until you manually switch ATOError to OFF and then back to AUTO.

An additional float sensor + BOB or optical sensor + FMM to detect an abnormally high water level would also be a good idea, as you suggest.

Excellent! This is exactly what I was looking for, I had the power consumption idea as well, I’ll give that a shot, the code above is extremely helpful. Thanks for the response.