Aquacultured Rock From KP Aquatics

[Copedog]

One last question Chip.

What size tank is that in your first post?

I'm trying to get an idea of the rock sizes. My tank footprint is 24X12. I'm wondering if I should get 10 or 15 lbs. Density vs volume varies I'm sure.

Thanks.
Scott

 

[Maritimer]

I was all set to buy live Pukani rock from Blue Zoo and before I could get my curing station ready, they sold out...smh

Or perhaps you lucked out . . .

I purchased BZ Pukani rock to start my 65 gallon tank a couple of years back. It arrived in two thick wet boxes, and I was excited to see what might lie inside the newspapers! What I found was . . .

Rock.

Wet rock that had obviously once been some form of coral, but it was devoid of any life other than bacteria and a few red forams. No living sponges (one or two that looked re-hydrated), no living plant life, no . . . nothin.

I still use the rock, I like the shapes and the multitude of crevices - but it wasn't "live" live rock.

~Bruce

 

[rtparty]

Or perhaps you lucked out . . .

I purchased BZ Pukani rock to start my 65 gallon tank a couple of years back. It arrived in two thick wet boxes, and I was excited to see what might lie inside the newspapers! What I found was . . .

Rock.

Wet rock that had obviously once been some form of coral, but it was devoid of any life other than bacteria and a few red forams. No living sponges (one or two that looked re-hydrated), no living plant life, no . . . nothin.

I still use the rock, I like the shapes and the multitude of crevices - but it wasn't "live" live rock.

~Bruce

Thanks for the reply.

I know others that bought about 5 boxes and loved it.

Did you happen to contact them about it?

I am currently between KP Aquatics and my LFS. I prefer to support my LFS and also pick out shapes I want. So we'll see what happens but I need to decide soon

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

One last question Chip.

What size tank is that in your first post?

I'm trying to get an idea of the rock sizes. My tank footprint is 24X12. I'm wondering if I should get 10 or 15 lbs. Density vs volume varies I'm sure.

Thanks.
Scott

My curing tank is a standard 20g long. I ordered the 10lb box, but actual shipping weight was closer to 13lbs. The shipping materials account for some of that weight, I'm sure. But I think KP gave me an extra pound or two.

I put the rock in my display yesterday (also a 20g long). I'll try to get some pictures today or tomorrow. I think this really is just enough rock. For my tastes, I think any more would have been a bit too much. The one rock is pretty tall and is right in the stream of my MP10. I'm going to have to move the MP10 up a bit. As I mentioned though, I like the look of a little bit less rock. Others might really like to stack the rock.

If you like a more "full" look in your tank, maybe go with the larger box. If it ends up being too much, toss one of the rocks in the sump. If you're not going to have a sump, maybe err on the side of caution and get the smaller box. If it doesn't look like enough, you can always add dry rock (or a piece of live rock from the LFS later).

 

[shred5]

I feel your pain there. Been having nothing but trouble for 2 straight years.

The rock isn't cheap, that's for sure. It's certainly not $4/lb like dry Pukani. I think it's all a trade-off though. 60lbs from KP Aquatics is $495 overnight to your door, so really it's only about $8.20/lb. From Tampa Bay Saltwater, it's only $390 for a 60lb box, but that's air freighted and you have to pick it up. Still though, that's only $6.50/lb. I don't personally think that's that bad, but I've been failing for 2 straight years.. I'd probably sell a kidney if I could just get some stuff to work in my tank. Maybe you could do half and half? Maybe go half dry rock and get a 30lb order from a site like KP Aquatics ($250 shipped to your door, or $8.33/lb).

Kp aquatics does air freight also... Just go to the bottom and select it. minimum 50 lbs.

 

[shred5]

Or perhaps you lucked out . . .

I purchased BZ Pukani rock to start my 65 gallon tank a couple of years back. It arrived in two thick wet boxes, and I was excited to see what might lie inside the newspapers! What I found was . . .

Rock.

Wet rock that had obviously once been some form of coral, but it was devoid of any life other than bacteria and a few red forams. No living sponges (one or two that looked re-hydrated), no living plant life, no . . . nothin.

I still use the rock, I like the shapes and the multitude of crevices - but it wasn't "live" live rock.

~Bruce

I bet you have been in the hobby a while... Live rock today is not what it was unless buying aqaucultured.
What we got even 15 years ago was so much better. Most rock is boat rock and everything is scraped off period so it does not rot.

I just bough some rock from liverocknreef and they were out of what I wanted so they talked me into some other rock way more expensive. It was grade A GMP rock... I was excited because GMP is awsum and hard to get.. What a let down.. Not even allot of coraline, grade A. I would not order from them ever again.. Bought another rock from them too and it was pretty much rubble.

I was going to get some aqua-cultured rock too but it is heavy in most case so I do not want a full reef of it.

KP Aquatics is a great place, I have made lots of orders from them even when they were Sealife Inc. but never rock...

 

[Rick Krejci]

I've done live rock for 25 years or so. I thought I'd try to have an open mind and try the sterile method on my new set-up, but found I really missed the biodiversity and creepy-crawlies and had a lot of stability and dino issues, all gone with the addition of LR.

I bought 10 lbs of KP's uncured rock several months ago and generally love it! Took about 2 weeks for the sponges/other stuff to die off/cure, and plopped it in to the DT and it's been good since.

Do have some hitchhikers, good and bad. I've aiptasia-x'ed about 4-5 single aiptasia, so far so good. Have a bunch of brittle stars hanging their legs out of the rock. I have some interesting and unique creatures, including a eunice worm and either a pistol or mantis that I never see, only hear. Now have a super-solid base of pods in the fuge.

 

[shred5]

I've done live rock for 25 years or so. I thought I'd try to have an open mind and try the sterile method on my new set-up, but found I really missed the biodiversity and creepy-crawlies and had a lot of stability and dino issues, all gone with the addition of LR.

I bought 10 lbs of KP's uncured rock several months ago and generally love it! Took about 2 weeks for the sponges/other stuff to die off/cure, and plopped it in to the DT and it's been good since.

Do have some hitchhikers, good and bad. I've aiptasia-x'ed about 4-5 single aiptasia, so far so good. Have a bunch of brittle stars hanging their legs out of the rock. I have some interesting and unique creatures, including a eunice worm and either a pistol or mantis that I never see, only hear. Now have a super-solid base of pods in the fuge.

its seam Caribbean rock seems to have more bad hitchhikers than any other rock..
But it has the most life too because it is close.
Honestly with live rock I have had very few in my 30+ years of using it.
A few crabs and mantis shrimp and mostly they were sitting in the bottom of the box.

The first time I used dead rock no issues but a few tries after that have lead to nasty algae for a very long time. The dead rock seems to have dropped in quality and is loaded with phosphates and takes for ever to release it all...

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Kp aquatics does air freight also... Just go to the bottom and select it. minimum 50 lbs.

Yep that's true. I believe both Tampa Bay Saltwater and KP Aquatics will both air freight less than their quoted "minimum" order amount, but the shipping cost is for their minimum. I'm pretty sure I read that TBS will air freight basically any amount of rock, but the minimum shipping charge (100lb minimum at $0.90/lb = $90) applies. Even if you only order 10lbs of rock. For me the overnight made sense because of the small quantity and because I didn't want to go through the hassle of air freight.

Air freight will definitely get you more diversity. I don't think any crabs survived the trip. I also only saw one tiny brittle star. But, there's still a ton of life. Even shipped overnight, there's no live rock I've seen in the last decade that matches this. Not since I set up my first tank with Live Aquaria's "uncured" rock in 2006-2007.

Whether air freighted or overnighted, I think ocean rock is lightyears ahead of dry rock and the barren stuff most stores try to pass off as "live" rock.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I've done live rock for 25 years or so. I thought I'd try to have an open mind and try the sterile method on my new set-up, but found I really missed the biodiversity and creepy-crawlies and had a lot of stability and dino issues, all gone with the addition of LR.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's refreshing to hear about all the cases where dry rock systems just didn't work. I used to think all the people who had dinos, SPS issues and stability issues were all just doing something wrong. That is, until I became one of them.

 

[rtparty]

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's refreshing to hear about all the cases where dry rock systems just didn't work. I used to think all the people who had dinos, SPS issues and stability issues were all just doing something wrong. That is, until I became one of them.

When you become one of the "ones" where dry rock bites you in the rear, it becomes super eye opening and you start to question everything. At least I did. I'll take aptasia over dinos any day. I'll take a bad crab over 6 months of non stop hair algae.

My biggest concern is this is only going to get worse as more and more vendors push dry rock and live rock is harder to find.

I really wish BRS would start up a "live" rock section. At a minimum they could put thousands of pounds of Pukani, Tonga and reef saver in massive vats and then add in bacteria and clean rocks from their other systems to seed it all. Keep that running for a year minimum and then start selling it. It would be light years ahead of dry rock at least.

 

[shred5]

When you become one of the "ones" where dry rock bites you in the rear, it becomes super eye opening and you start to question everything. At least I did. I'll take aptasia over dinos any day. I'll take a bad crab over 6 months of non stop hair algae.

My biggest concern is this is only going to get worse as more and more vendors push dry rock and live rock is harder to find.

I really wish BRS would start up a "live" rock section. At a minimum they could put thousands of pounds of Pukani, Tonga and reef saver in massive vats and then add in bacteria and clean rocks from their other systems to seed it all. Keep that running for a year minimum and then start selling it. It would be light years ahead of dry rock at least.

BRS used to drop ship live rock to you.

Live rock is making a comeback, just wish it was the same quality as it used to be. Allot of people will never see all the cool stuff that used to come out of it.

I think BRS is the main pusher of dead rock too..

 

[rtparty]

BRS used to drop ship live rock to you.

Live rock is making a comeback, just wish it was the same quality as it used to be. Allot of people will never see all the cool stuff that used to come out of it.

I think BRS is the main pusher of dead rock too..

I'm not "in the know" but I'd bet BRS is the largest reef supplier or close to. They are definitely the biggest reef info YouTube channel that I'm aware of. They sell and push dry rock. They have "scared" people out of live rock.

Chip hit on the head. I think all the reasons for dry rock are what we should strive for as a hobby...in theory.

However, I'm afraid this is one of those times where theory and practice don't agree. For some it does, for a lot of others it doesn't.

So I often wonder: What's the missing link? How do we as a hobby make dry rock tanks work the vast majority. Is there a sequence or certain curing process we need to start 6 months in advance? If that's the case, is it sustainable? Would a new hobbyist be okay with that regiment?

I'm just rambling now

 

[shred5]

I'm not "in the know" but I'd bet BRS is the largest reef supplier or close to. They are definitely the biggest reef info YouTube channel that I'm aware of. They sell and push dry rock. They have "scared" people out of live rock.

Chip hit on the head. I think all the reasons for dry rock are what we should strive for as a hobby...in theory.

However, I'm afraid this is one of those times where theory and practice don't agree. For some it does, for a lot of others it doesn't.

So I often wonder: What's the missing link? How do we as a hobby make dry rock tanks work the vast majority. Is there a sequence or certain curing process we need to start 6 months in advance? If that's the case, is it sustainable? Would a new hobbyist be okay with that regiment?

I'm just rambling now

I am not disagreeing with you?

All I am saying is BRS used to sell live rock for a short period.
Matter of fact I have talked to some retailers that sold live rock. Basically with out saying names, said they scared to many out of the liverock market making it not worth caring liverock anymore.

 

[rtparty]

I am not disagreeing with you?

All I am saying is BRS used to sell live rock for a short period.
Matter of fact I have talked to some retailers that sold live rock. Basically with out saying names, said they scared to many out of the liverock market making it not worth caring liverock anymore.

Oh no, I was agreeing and just expounding upon BRS pushing people out of live rock and into dry rock.

 

[KJAG]

So in your opinion, what was the cause of Mike Paletta's 12 months of problems?

EDIT: by the way, I replied to you 21 minutes ago. You replied to me 10 minutes ago, claiming that you disagree with my point and the video I posted. Did you watch the video? If so, I'd be curious to know how you watched a 28 minuted video in the 11 minutes between my reply and yours.

Just curious, did he acid dip his rock if it wasn’t artificial? (like Pukani etc)
I see that you keep emboldening this individuals name as if he is the Grail example of successful reefkeeping, but there are known issues with dry rock which can easily be averted as long as certain rules are applied. “Credentials” in the hobby mean different things to different people. The way I personally view the “old guard” isn’t necessarily with more respect than anyone else in the hobby simply because they’ve been in the game awhile and have had successful tanks.

 

[Fishfinder]

I am thinking about adding some live rock to my display. Going to pick it up straight from KP. He told me to coordinate with him and pick it up right off his boat

 

[EMeyer]

Every piece of so-called "live rock" I've seen for sale at a LFS was dead rock they got wet.

The aquacultured stuff I've seen has universally been very dense, heavy pieces of limestone with life growing on it.

Dry rock is dead and more or less sterile, enough said.

I've come to conclude there are just two different kinds of people in the reefing world. Some of us see the hitchhikers as a feature, some of you see them as a bug. My criticism of the BRS dead rock school of thought is theyre pushing their opinion as a fact rather than a purely subjective matter of taste.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Just curious, did he acid dip his rock if it wasn’t artificial? (like Pukani etc)
I see that you keep emboldening this individuals name as if he is the Grail example of successful reefkeeping, but there are known issues with dry rock which can easily be averted as long as certain rules are applied. “Credentials” in the hobby mean different things to different people. The way I personally view the “old guard” isn’t necessarily with more respect than anyone else in the hobby simply because they’ve been in the game awhile and have had successful tanks.

The user to whom I was replying (hart24601) was implying that the problems reefers commonly experience (poor SPS survival, dinos, etc) were all down to hobbyist skill. In this context, the skill of the aquarist is very important. Credentials mean a lot when someone is blaming poor tank conditions on inexperience. I also never hero-worshiped or applied any deity status to Mike Paletta. I merely stated that he shouldn't have any problems keeping saltwater aquariums because of his experience. You don't have to like how the "old guard" does things to at least acknowledge that they know how to keep successful saltwater aquariums.

It's possible that acid-washing the rock prevents some (or all) of these problems. I don't think anyone has really looked into that in great depth before. All I'm really focusing on in this thread is how adding live rock to a tank started with dry rock can help solve some of the problems we've been discussing. I don't mean to dissuade people from using dry rock, nor have I once said that you can't set up an aquarium successfully with dry rock. As I've stated nearly a dozen times now, plenty of people who start reef tanks with nothing but dry rock have no problems at all. But, others do.

 

[Dobermanp]

Wow, tanks looking great!