Aquaforest Reef Salt

[dieselkeeper]

Whether real or not (I am very skeptical that 0.24 ppm came from the salt), that is a trivially small amount of phosphate relative to foods that add far more.

That phosphate test came from fresh IO mixed salt in my saltwater mixing container with the brown crud. 6 year old 220 gallon tank. Mixed reef. Always ran a refugium. I added GFO to get phosphates down to 0.08. I stopped GFO at that time and phosphates still went down to 0. So I shut down the refugium to let phosphates go back up. I test phosphates with a Hanna ultra low test meter.

 

[dieselkeeper]

Whether real or not (I am very skeptical that 0.24 ppm came from the salt), that is a trivially small amount of phosphate relative to foods that add far more.

I would like to hear from others with phosphate test from their mixing containers with the brown crud. Phosphates may be coming from the brown crud being left to build up. So amounts being built up over time.

 

[Chac317]

Interesting. 3-4 years is a long time to never have to clean it out. I wonder of heating the water plays a roll. Is yours constantly being heated with flow?

Yeah I have a heater and pump in there. Heats to ~78 degrees.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would like to hear from others with phosphate test from their mixing containers with the brown crud. Phosphates may be coming from the brown crud being left to build up. So amounts being built up over time.

How does that make sense? That crud building up is a source of phosphate? If something came out of the salt water and stuck to the wall (the crud) that contains phosphate, it is reducing phosphate in the water, not increasing it.

Lots and lots of salt mix studies show that modern salt mixes are not a source of that much phosphate. Most likely it is your source water, or some other contaminant or test error. .

 

[dieselkeeper]

How does that make sense? That crud building up is a source of phosphate? If something came out of the salt water and stuck to the wall (the crud) that contains phosphate, it is reducing phosphate in the water, not increasing it.

Lots and lots of salt mix studies show that modern salt mixes are not a source of that much phosphate. Most likely it is your source water, or some other contaminant or test error. .

it could release it back into the water. I don't know where exactly where the phosphate came from. I'm assuming its from the new saltwater because I tested it. Please prove me wrong.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

it could release it back into the water. I don't know where exactly where the phosphate came from. I'm assuming its from the new saltwater because I tested it. Please prove me wrong.

Of course I cannot prove you wrong in a given instance, but no salt mix studies, of which there have been plenty, show phosphate that high in any mix, while lots of folks show phosphate in their RO/DI. Lot's of folks also have obvious test error with various kits, including the Hanna checkers.

It's not even like a company might accidentally put in too much phosphate, since they are generally not intending to add any.

As to the crud, yes, it might release phosphate, but it would have to have been in the water first to get into the crud, thus the crud cannot be a general explanation of where phosphate is coming from.

BUT, let me emphasize there is nothing wrong with using 0.24 ppm phosphate water, if that is what it really is, for routine water changes. If you do a 10% change with it, phosphate will only boost by 0.024 ppm. You add more than that every day with the foods you feed. Thus it is small enough that it gets lost in the big turnover that takes place in a reef tank.

 

[dieselkeeper]

I would think if I mix up 50 gallons on saltwater that contains 0.02 phosphates. And don't clean the mixing container after each mixing, go 10 times without cleaning. And the phosphates are in the crud, assuming the crud is like live rock, phosphates could leach back into the water over time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would think if I mix up 50 gallons on saltwater that contains 0.02 phosphates. And don't clean the mixing container after each mixing, go 10 times without cleaning. And the phosphates are in the crud, assuming the crud is like live rock, phosphates could leach back into the water over time.

There is no evidence the crud has anything to do with phosphate. Nearly everyone has crud from RC. Almost no one has phosphate elevated like that in their new water.

Sure, it might absorb and later release phosphate for unknown reasons. But those reasons would not be random chance, and rock would not act as you are saying.

If you expose calcium carbonate rock over and over to phosphate at 0.02 ppm, it will never be able to raise the phosphate level above 0.02 ppm phosphate, unless something very unusual happens, like you accidentally add acid and dissolve some of the rock.

 

[dieselkeeper]

BUT, let me emphasize there is nothing wrong with using 0.24 ppm phosphate water

I was battling recurring cyano outbreaks. I'd would have to use chemi clean twice each time. Only to have it come back in a couple of months. So I was getting frustrated and ready to give up the hobby. So I had to find the source of phosphates or give up. I'm the type of person that has the attitude: "Persevere and Endeavor". I'm not testing with the hanna checker, I'm using the $200 hanna tester. I would think it is more accurate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was battling recurring cyano outbreaks. I'd would have to use chemi clean twice each time. Only to have it come back in a couple of months. So I was getting frustrated and ready to give up the hobby. So I had to find the source of phosphates or give up. I'm the type of person that has the attitude: "Persevere and Endeavor". I'm not testing with the hanna checker, I'm using the $200 hanna tester. I would think it is more accurate.

have you checked the RO/DI used to make that batch of salt water?

 

[dieselkeeper]

Yes I have. Tested it at the time I found phosphates in the saltwater. It tested zero. So I assumed it is the salt.

 

[shred5]

I was battling recurring cyano outbreaks. I'd would have to use chemi clean twice each time. Only to have it come back in a couple of months. So I was getting frustrated and ready to give up the hobby. So I had to find the source of phosphates or give up. I'm the type of person that has the attitude: "Persevere and Endeavor". I'm not testing with the hanna checker, I'm using the $200 hanna tester. I would think it is more accurate.

First off stop using chemi clean it is a band-aid. Learn how to take care of cyano naturally.
Cyano is natural and nothing wrong with a little in a reef tank and is part of the biodiversity. Don't need a sterile environment. This is why dino are so rampant in the hobby nowadays because there is nothing to compete against it.

If you have to much cyno and it is a issue it is telling you that something is wrong but it is not your salt.
People blame and give way to much credit to the salt they use.

 

[dieselkeeper]

Duplicate post

 

[dieselkeeper]

First off stop using chemi clean it is a band-aid. Learn how to take care of cyano naturally.
Cyano is natural and nothing wrong with a little in a reef tank and is part of the biodiversity. Don't need a sterile environment. This is why dino are so rampant in the hobby nowadays because there is nothing to compete against it.

If you have to much cyno and it is a issue it is telling you that something is wrong but it is not your salt.
People blame and give way to much credit to the salt they use.

This was my source of info to combat my cyano out break.

How to Prevent and Remove Cyanobacteria From Your Aquarium - Red Slime Algae Control

Cyanobacteria can be a real pain in the rear but taking the right steps to prevention can save you a ton of effort in the long run. Learn how to prevent, remove, and control Red Slime in your saltwater aquarium.

www.google.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I think the salt is an unlikely source, and I don't think using it is an issue, but its obviously fine to use something else.

 

[Pardsie]

I have used AF regular not the probiotic for over 2 years. It mixes fast mixes clean and the alk is always dkh 8 consitently. Use with confidence.

 

[jduong916]

Still, why do you want to clean it out? I know many people do, I'm just trying to understand the rationale.

Does this really work to clear out the crud? I’ve been using the reef crystals and i add seachem acid buffer to lower alk. If i did this with muriatic acid i would only use 13ml in a fifty gallon container. That 13ml of acid would clear the tank of crud?

 

[UtahReefer]

I use AF Reef Salt. Do auto water changes daily so my salt tank has water in ti all the time. Never had any sort of crud build up. Mixes fast and can be used as soon as it's clear. Other benefits is that it has Vitamin C and Amino Acid in it which the corals seem to love.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does this really work to clear out the crud? I’ve been using the reef crystals and i add seachem acid buffer to lower alk. If i did this with muriatic acid i would only use 13ml in a fifty gallon container. That 13ml of acid would clear the tank of crud?

Reducing alk and lower pH certainly reduces or eliminates the precipitation of calcium carbonate. I've seen pictures of brute mixing cans that were getting the white/tan precipitate of calcium carbonate from normal IO before this procedure, but remained pristine after it.

I am uncertain, however, whether it will impact the brown crud that comes from Reef Crystals, which seems to be different man may relate to the organic matter in it (which I do not want in a salt mix anyway).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use AF Reef Salt. Do auto water changes daily so my salt tank has water in ti all the time. Never had any sort of crud build up. Mixes fast and can be used as soon as it's clear. Other benefits is that it has Vitamin C and Amino Acid in it which the corals seem to love.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of organics added to the salt mix. Bacteria wills tart consuming them, as well as trace elements, fairly quickly, and you'd want to use the salt soon after making it (especially if you thing those organics are useful).

In my situation, I like to store new salt water for an extended period (a month) while it is used by an AWC system, and organics in the mix is not a good plan in that setting.