Are fish prebiotics or probiotics a thing?

[AydenLincoln]

With everything going on with Hewbie and his gut issues. I can’t help but wonder if there is a vitamin or soak or powder for fish that contains beneficial prebiotics/probiotics for fish…like there is humans? Not something you dose in the water for the nutrients. Something you can actually feed to fish! And more than just garlic or selcon food soaks?

 

[mcarroll]

They are both used fairly extensively in aquaculture for food fishes.

Pretty sure I saw something like this from New Life Spectrum for aquarium use...

yep

...but Google should be able to find this and others if you ask.

 

[Paul B]

Hubie would love live earthworms and they come with all the probiotics he needs as well as being free.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Hubie would love live earthworms and they come with all the probiotics he needs as well as being free.

Yes…but Ayden doesn’t like them and Ayden won’t even put a worm on a fishing hook! Also worms I was told especially non-saltwater ones hold no nutritional value for saltwater puffers.

 

[Paul B]

Also worms I was told especially non-saltwater ones hold no nutritional value for saltwater puffers.

You were told wrong.

 

[AydenLincoln]

You were told wrong.

The person I was told this is a marine biologist who specializes in saltwater fish and keeping them in the aquarium hobby as well as sustainability in the hobby. I think anything else is anecdotal evidence…given that they aren’t eating earthworms and usually not worms at all even in the ocean. Although they can sometimes pick at them. Now freshwater puffers are a different story because those I know do eat worms as part of their natural diet. But I think for this instance it won’t help…and I’m not doing it. Sorry, Paul worms are gross! I tried bloodworms out of curiosity and he didn’t touch them. Also this was when I was told it is more like candy for him.

 

[Paul B]

Ayden, I don't care if he has more degrees than a thermometer; he is wrong. Of course the best food for a puffer is what they eat in the sea, and that is live crabs, but you may not be able to get those. You can get them in a bait store. The next best thing is clams.

Marine Biologists get their education in a classroom taught by a professor who also learned in a classroom. I learned by spending almost 400 hours underwater with the fish.

I have a first cousin who is a Marine Biologist professor and has never kept a fish, not even a goldfish and had to SCUBA dive once for half an hour. He looks in my reef and has no idea what he is looking at, but he can name every worm.

I would not use an earthworm for a steady diet, but as you know, I believe in gut bacteria and earthworms are great for that. I have been feeding them to my fish since the 50s.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Ayden, I don't care if he has more degrees than a thermometer; he is wrong. Of course the best food for a puffer is what they eat in the sea, and that is live crabs, but you may not be able to get those. You can get them in a bait store. The next best thing is clams.

Marine Biologists get their education in a classroom taught by a professor who also learned in a classroom. I learned by spending almost 400 hours underwater with the fish.

I have a first cousin who is a Marine Biologist professor and has never kept a fish, not even a goldfish and had to SCUBA dive once for half an hour. He looks in my reef and has no idea what he is looking at, but he can name every worm.

I would not use an earthworm for a steady diet, but as you know, I believe in gut bacteria and earthworms are great for that. I have been feeding them to my fish since the 50s.

Interesting. The one thing I will say is this hobby is very anecdotal. Hewbie loves emerald crabs but that is like a filet mignon dinner daily which my wallet doesn’t like! All I will say is that they don’t eat them in the wild but that they are rich in certain things I just wouldn’t feed them. What works for one may not work for many and in this instance for Hewbie I want something fully and 100% backed by science although I realized prebiotics/probiotics for a fish may not exist in the way I think they do. But as for the source I wholeheartedly believe and trust them not just because of their job but they also do scuba dive, have authored paperwork, and studied under many world renowned scientists. But also because I have learned to stick to one source. I’m not disagreeing it works for you but I will not do it for Hewbie. Back to the original question…do you use any supplements or vitamins?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would not use an earthworm for a steady diet, but as you know, I believe in gut bacteria and earthworms are great for that. I have been feeding them to my fish since the 50s.

How do you know earthworms have the species this puffer would find beneficial?

I brush my teeth twice a day and have lived for many decades, but that too is not evidence that the toothpaste has beneficial bacteria in it.

 

[Paul B]

. Back to the original question…do you use any supplements or vitamins?

No, with a proper diet, that is a waste of money.

How do you know earthworms have the species this puffer would find beneficial?

How do you know it doesn't?

I brush my teeth twice a day and have lived for many decades, but that too is not evidence that the toothpaste has beneficial bacteria in it.

Although I am not an expert on puffer diet, I have spent plenty of time with them in the sea and I have kept many of them in a species tank for many years.

Also remember, I don't have to quarantine and no fish ever gets sick. How bad could it be?

(yes, I know, it's not a puffer, It's the only diving picture I have that is close to it)



I have been feeding earthworms to saltwater fish probably longer than anyone on the planet.
(I am guessing)

I fed them to my 2 Waspfish this morning and that is about all I feed them. I have them about 3 or 4 years and they will most likely die of old age in 10 years or so, although I doubt I will make it.



They "seem" to be a perfect food for any fish. But as I said, I am not a puffer dietician. I just know what works for many years.


All my fish get chopped up earthworms every week or so and I have not seen any problems yet.

Stop brushing your teeth for 5 or 6 years and see if you still live. People lived for over a million years without brushing their teeth, of course they didn't have dentists to give them those little toothbrushes and toothpaste.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How do you know it doesn't?

I made no claim of any type here. Only you did. I was asking what the reason for making that claim was.

You sometimes state opinions as if they were accepted facts. If they are opinions, it is worth readers knowing that.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Stop brushing your teeth for 5 or 6 years and see if you still live. People lived for over a million years without brushing their teeth, of course they didn't have dentists to give them those little toothbrushes and toothpaste.

They also didn’t have artificial sweeteners or sugar and used different methods to clean their teeth. Just saying!

 

[Paul B]

They "seem" to be a perfect food for any fish. But as I said, I am not a puffer dietician.

I made no claim of any type here. Only you did. I was asking what the reason for making that claim was.

You sometimes state opinions as if they were accepted facts. If they are opinions, it is worth readers knowing that.

I did say they "seem" to be a perfect food. I didn't claim they were.

I also said I was not an expert on puffer diets:

Although I am not an expert on puffer diet,

I didn't claim anything as fact. I said "seem" and I also said I have been feeding live worms since the 60s, so I said: How bad could it be?

I never state anything is fact. It is all opinion based on experience. None of it is based on re-hashed internet "facts".

 

[Privateye]

On probiotics and prebiotics:

Yes, these products are available. Cobalt brand feeds contain probiotics, specifically endospore-forming Bacillus species. These are effective even when stored dry. It's much rarer to see probiotics that require wet, refrigerated conditions. There are many types of fish probiotics out there, even some you may not think of such as probiotic such as yeast and some species of Vibrio. A lot of these probiotic effects are species-dependent, which makes sense considering the variety of lifestyles and environments fishes inhabit. Bacillus species tend to be pretty universal though.

On earthworms:

They're highly-palatable, have great motion, and plenty of nutrients. They even have good amounts of EPA and ARA. However, they are deficient in DHA. Marine fishes are not as able to make one fatty acid from another as freshwater fishes are. DHA, ARA, and EPA must come from the diet. So they're a fine food source, but I wouldn't solely feed earthworms. Just like I wouldn't solely feed shrimp because it can result in a thiamine deficiency. As part of a varied diet I see no issue though, and potentially some benefit. It has 2/3 of the fatty acids needed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I never state anything is fact. It is all opinion based on experience. None of it is based on re-hashed internet "facts".

No? This assertion of yours seems fact-like.

Hubie would love live earthworms and they come with all the probiotics he needs as well as being free.

 

[mcarroll]

I did say they "seem" to be a perfect food. I didn't claim they were.

I also said I was not an expert on puffer diets:

I didn't claim anything as fact. I said "seem" and I also said I have been feeding live worms since the 60s, so I said: How bad could it be?

I never state anything is fact. It is all opinion based on experience. None of it is based on re-hashed internet "facts".

Opinions float around here like so much flotsam and jetsam.

Picking on one person's opinion to point out that "it's only an opinion" never fails to stand out as weird.

Can opinions be cured with Cipro?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Opinions float around here like so much flotsam and jetsam.

Picking on one person's opinion to point out that "it's only an opinion" never fails to stand out as weird.

Can opinions be cured with Cipro?

To be fair, I did not criticize it for being an opinion. I asked what the evidence was supporting the assertion.

It was only when Paul defended it as just an opinion instead of providing any evidence, that I suggested he sometimes stated opinions as if they were facts. I am fine with it as an opinion, and it may also be a true fact.

 

[Paul B]

Hubie would love live earthworms and they come with all the probiotics he needs as well as being free.

I still stand by this, but of course it is an opinion as not one of us is a fish dietition.

As I said my "opinion" is based on many years of feeding worms. And as Privateye said, I would not feed them exclusively as I do know what they are lacking for salt water fish just like I wouldn't feed goldfish but I didn't think I had to write all about the things that are contained in worms or what they are lacking.

This thread is about fish Pro Biotics. I feel there are plenty of Pro Biotics in live worms. "As an Opinion".

I tried to answer Aydens question without going into all of that which can be researched. I like them mainly for the living gut bacteria that is not in any commercial dry foods. (which is why we have disease threads, also an opinion)

Puffers eat mainly crabs. As I also said, I got most of my education underwater not in a classroom.

I think too many hobbyists have some sort of fear in feeding something that doesn't come from an LFS or is in a pretty package.

I have successfully kept fish, including puffers I bought and caught long before any salt water fish food was available.

Some of the first fish I kept in the 60s were puffers I collected.

 

[AydenLincoln]

In case anyone was wondering Hewbie ate a giant chunk of squid tentacles tonight soaked in selcon, garlic, and vitachem! It made me smile!