Paul B
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I posted this 2 or 3 years ago and just found it again, so I am posting it again. If you read it, read it again using only one eye so it seems new.
Why Fish In Captivity Get Sick
As some people may know I have been talking about how my fish have never gotten sick in decades and I have been offered many reasons why such as I am Lucky or my tank has some mysterious creature that eats parasites, my Undergravel sucks up parasites and diseases, the Ozone I use kills diseases (I have not used Ozone in almost 3 years) UV light won't allow diseases to flourish (I never used UV light) or a variety of other "explanations".
I am pretty sure I know the reason, and I have known it for many years, but never actually had proof. Now I do.
My wife has MS and has had it for over 20 years so I research all I can about it. My Grandson and Granddaughter also have health problems that can be life-threatening. Because of this, I do a lot of research on new therapies or any ideas or theories that may be pertinent to this.
Two of my friends are neurologists, and I have spoken to them on this also.
Ever since the 80s, I have thought there was some kind of important connection between the organisms living in our bodies, animals' guts, and the brain. At first, I figured it was slightly, but not very important. Now I know differently.
I read all I can find on this relationship and in this month's "Discover" magazine (Nov. 2020)
There are two articles on the subject. They mainly focus on mental health and autism, but they outline how gut microbes control our health. Something I have known all along, but didn't put it all together so completely.
The article starts out by quoting the Doctor at UCLA in 1990. He started thinking about how tiny organisms, too small to be seen, could function as "powerful, self-contained machines," powerful enough to take over and destroy the Human body.
The gist of one of these articles is about a young boy who had Autism and severe gastrointestinal symptoms.
He then had new microbes introduced into his gut, which changed everything. Within a year, he was almost back to normal and is no longer considered to have autism, and his internal issues are also resolved.
"Our body, especially our intestines, is teeming with thousands of types of bacteria, but it was largely unknown how they affected the body besides causing illness.”
Then he thought, "Why would the human immune system, which is designed to attack and destroy foreign invaders, allow hundreds of species of bacteria to live and thrive in our guts unmolested?"
The answer is that there must be some sort of benefit to both the microbes and the body.
A "Symbiotic System".
Early research was done on lab mice that were bred to have no bacteria in their bodies. It was found that those mice had a 30 to 40% reduction of a specific type of immune cell known as "helper T cells”.
Helper T cells help stop invading pathogens, and it was found that germ-free mice were far less robust than mice with a full complement of microbes.
Copper, antibiotics, and most aquarium medications either kill or severely alter gut microbes
Those sterile mice were then given fecal transplants from healthy mice and, within a month, were just as healthy and had a strong immune response as healthy mice.
I realize mice, humans, and fish are different, but we all evolved together, and our gut microbiome, just as in a fish, acts very much the same in relation to health.
One of the biggest things this researcher found was that a gut microbe named "B.fragilis" played a key role in preventing the immune system from attacking its host and protecting against autoimmune diseases. (We don't want to kill that one)
(I was very interested in this because my wife's MS is an autoimmune disease)
I don't know if fish get autoimmune diseases, but it seems odd to me that many fish in quarantine or medicated for one disease, all of a sudden are afflicted with other, non-related diseases. You know, and I know, that it is very common.
Quarantine by itself, I don't feel, will cause disease unless the fish is stressed, as in a bare tank with PVC "decorations or if the fish is not being fed food with living bacteria (microbes) in it.
Getting back to the research. It was found that children with Autism had "leaky Gut Syndrome," which allowed microbes, one in particular called "4-ethylphenyl sulfate," to circulate in the blood.
Tests were performed on mice, and it was found that if they injected 4-ethylphenyl sulfate into healthy mice, they were more easily startled and were less comfortable in large empty spaces than their untreated peers, and there was an increase in anxiety-related behaviors.
Also (in mice, anyway, who have been given this molecule or have autism like symptoms), several important species involved in the digestion of carbohydrates were severely depleted.
That sounds very similar to me to fish that are quarantined, on meds, or not eating living bacteria, and why many of them refuse to eat, stay hidden, and try to jump out or just die.
We, humans, are more bacteria than humans. 1.3 to 1, to be exact. Our gut houses 100 trillion bacteria (I didn't count them) it is a complicated microbial universe which plays a very important part in our and our fish’s health.
These microbes help us digest food, keep harmful microbes at bay, and control our emotions.
(Maybe Vulcans use these)
In the 2000s, a neurobiologist researcher in Ireland was studying gut microbes on the brain and how they and stress affected mental and gut health.
I don't want to bore everyone more with all this research, but in short, it was found that stress also affects gut microbes, and gut microbe health can cause stress in us, and I assume in fish.
When the saltwater fish hobby started in the US, in 1971, in New York, anyway, where I live, I bought the first saltwater fish available, which were blue devils.
(I wrote about this many times, and it is in my book)
Those 7 blue devils were always sick, and I had to keep copper pennies in their tank constantly
(Liquid copper was not available to me at the time)
The copper kept the parasites from killing the fish, but the dosing and subsequent overdosing were tricky.
After about a year, I discovered live blackworms and started feeding them to my fish. After seven weeks, something happened. The fish became much "bluer" and looked so much better. I stopped using the pennies, and the fish didn't die.
One of the fish became, or always was, male, and his clear fins also became royal blue. The 6 female’s fins remained clear, but their blue was very blue.
They spawned and continued spawning for many years. And that was in 1972, when most people didn't even know what salt was unless it was in a small container with holes in it on the table next to the pepper.
Since then, I have been feeding live worms a few times a week. I can't get live blackworms now where I live, so I raise (very easily) white worms, which live in dirt.
It seems that those worms, for some reason, have the same good bacteria that our fish need for immunity, because since then, none of my fish have ever been sick with any communicable disease like ich or velvet, and in those fifty years, I have added many fish.
Virtually all my paired fish spawn, and the rest of them only die of old age, jumping out, or being bullied.
They always eat, are social, get along (unless I stupidly add something that I should not have), and never give me any problem.
I have no medications, hospital, or quarantine tank, and after a few minutes of acclimation, I put the fish right in, no matter if the tank they came from was heavily infected with some sort of parasites.
I also feed shellfish, and if I can get it live, I like it better because when we feed shellfish like clams, oysters, or mussels, we feed the entire creature, and those creatures are almost all guts as they don't have arms and legs to waste nutrients on. Those guts also seem to have the living bacteria and parasites that will keep our fish immune.
(Fish, and us need to be occasionally exposed to disease organisms, including parasites, to stay immune to them)
I am not sure about shellfish sold as “aquarium food” because they could be old, deep frozen, or irradiated to kill bacteria. Again, I am guessing here, so I like to buy living shellfish and freeze them myself if I can.
But living worms seem to work just as well. White worms can be had by Googling "white worm culture." You get a small supply for about fifteen bucks that you put in a shoe box-sized plastic container with damp potting soil. Keep them under about 80 degrees and feed dry cat food or bread with yogurt on it. I have a culture going for many years, and I get millions of inch-long worms.
Fish disease is a non-issue for me, and I believe it is due to the microbes in the food I have been feeding since the 70s.
Store-bought dry food, no matter what it is, will not have these healthy gut microbes; only living or freshly frozen "whole" creatures will have this.
Fish fillets, shrimp, octopus, and scallops will also not be as good for you, as you are only getting the muscle of those animals and not the gut microbes.
This food does not have to be fed at every meal, but “I” feel dry foods should never be fed except for short intervals like vacations.
Probiotics, while great (I take them myself), will also not have the full complement of microbes that are needed for immunity. Only the variety of bacteria that exist in living or freshly frozen animals will supply this.
So in short, I feel when we buy a fish, if we don’t already have a quarantined tank, acclimate the new fish, put it in your tank, and the first meal should be something like live worms or fresh shellfish, as I mentioned. Nothing else is needed, and dry foods should not be used except for vacation, but never at first. Whiteworms live in soil. Don’t be concerned if some of that soil gets in your tank. As a matter of fact, make sure some soil gets into your tank.
Someone posted not long ago that their fish died because it ate a piece of dirt! Really!. Fish eat poop, dirt won’t hurt them, and is actually needed
If this is followed and our fish are in a proper, natural tank with natural hiding places (no stark white PVC or anything man-made looking) and they are never medicated, they should end up immune to everything except jumping out or maybe your cat.
In the unlikely event that you disagree with this post, send me a SASE with your concern, and I will steam off the stamp and throw away the letter.
Why Fish In Captivity Get Sick
As some people may know I have been talking about how my fish have never gotten sick in decades and I have been offered many reasons why such as I am Lucky or my tank has some mysterious creature that eats parasites, my Undergravel sucks up parasites and diseases, the Ozone I use kills diseases (I have not used Ozone in almost 3 years) UV light won't allow diseases to flourish (I never used UV light) or a variety of other "explanations".
I am pretty sure I know the reason, and I have known it for many years, but never actually had proof. Now I do.
My wife has MS and has had it for over 20 years so I research all I can about it. My Grandson and Granddaughter also have health problems that can be life-threatening. Because of this, I do a lot of research on new therapies or any ideas or theories that may be pertinent to this.
Two of my friends are neurologists, and I have spoken to them on this also.
Ever since the 80s, I have thought there was some kind of important connection between the organisms living in our bodies, animals' guts, and the brain. At first, I figured it was slightly, but not very important. Now I know differently.
I read all I can find on this relationship and in this month's "Discover" magazine (Nov. 2020)
There are two articles on the subject. They mainly focus on mental health and autism, but they outline how gut microbes control our health. Something I have known all along, but didn't put it all together so completely.
The article starts out by quoting the Doctor at UCLA in 1990. He started thinking about how tiny organisms, too small to be seen, could function as "powerful, self-contained machines," powerful enough to take over and destroy the Human body.
The gist of one of these articles is about a young boy who had Autism and severe gastrointestinal symptoms.
He then had new microbes introduced into his gut, which changed everything. Within a year, he was almost back to normal and is no longer considered to have autism, and his internal issues are also resolved.
"Our body, especially our intestines, is teeming with thousands of types of bacteria, but it was largely unknown how they affected the body besides causing illness.”
Then he thought, "Why would the human immune system, which is designed to attack and destroy foreign invaders, allow hundreds of species of bacteria to live and thrive in our guts unmolested?"
The answer is that there must be some sort of benefit to both the microbes and the body.
A "Symbiotic System".
Early research was done on lab mice that were bred to have no bacteria in their bodies. It was found that those mice had a 30 to 40% reduction of a specific type of immune cell known as "helper T cells”.
Helper T cells help stop invading pathogens, and it was found that germ-free mice were far less robust than mice with a full complement of microbes.
Copper, antibiotics, and most aquarium medications either kill or severely alter gut microbes
Those sterile mice were then given fecal transplants from healthy mice and, within a month, were just as healthy and had a strong immune response as healthy mice.
I realize mice, humans, and fish are different, but we all evolved together, and our gut microbiome, just as in a fish, acts very much the same in relation to health.
One of the biggest things this researcher found was that a gut microbe named "B.fragilis" played a key role in preventing the immune system from attacking its host and protecting against autoimmune diseases. (We don't want to kill that one)
(I was very interested in this because my wife's MS is an autoimmune disease)
I don't know if fish get autoimmune diseases, but it seems odd to me that many fish in quarantine or medicated for one disease, all of a sudden are afflicted with other, non-related diseases. You know, and I know, that it is very common.
Quarantine by itself, I don't feel, will cause disease unless the fish is stressed, as in a bare tank with PVC "decorations or if the fish is not being fed food with living bacteria (microbes) in it.
Getting back to the research. It was found that children with Autism had "leaky Gut Syndrome," which allowed microbes, one in particular called "4-ethylphenyl sulfate," to circulate in the blood.
Tests were performed on mice, and it was found that if they injected 4-ethylphenyl sulfate into healthy mice, they were more easily startled and were less comfortable in large empty spaces than their untreated peers, and there was an increase in anxiety-related behaviors.
Also (in mice, anyway, who have been given this molecule or have autism like symptoms), several important species involved in the digestion of carbohydrates were severely depleted.
That sounds very similar to me to fish that are quarantined, on meds, or not eating living bacteria, and why many of them refuse to eat, stay hidden, and try to jump out or just die.
We, humans, are more bacteria than humans. 1.3 to 1, to be exact. Our gut houses 100 trillion bacteria (I didn't count them) it is a complicated microbial universe which plays a very important part in our and our fish’s health.
These microbes help us digest food, keep harmful microbes at bay, and control our emotions.
(Maybe Vulcans use these)
In the 2000s, a neurobiologist researcher in Ireland was studying gut microbes on the brain and how they and stress affected mental and gut health.
I don't want to bore everyone more with all this research, but in short, it was found that stress also affects gut microbes, and gut microbe health can cause stress in us, and I assume in fish.
When the saltwater fish hobby started in the US, in 1971, in New York, anyway, where I live, I bought the first saltwater fish available, which were blue devils.
(I wrote about this many times, and it is in my book)
Those 7 blue devils were always sick, and I had to keep copper pennies in their tank constantly
(Liquid copper was not available to me at the time)
The copper kept the parasites from killing the fish, but the dosing and subsequent overdosing were tricky.
After about a year, I discovered live blackworms and started feeding them to my fish. After seven weeks, something happened. The fish became much "bluer" and looked so much better. I stopped using the pennies, and the fish didn't die.
One of the fish became, or always was, male, and his clear fins also became royal blue. The 6 female’s fins remained clear, but their blue was very blue.
They spawned and continued spawning for many years. And that was in 1972, when most people didn't even know what salt was unless it was in a small container with holes in it on the table next to the pepper.
Since then, I have been feeding live worms a few times a week. I can't get live blackworms now where I live, so I raise (very easily) white worms, which live in dirt.
It seems that those worms, for some reason, have the same good bacteria that our fish need for immunity, because since then, none of my fish have ever been sick with any communicable disease like ich or velvet, and in those fifty years, I have added many fish.
Virtually all my paired fish spawn, and the rest of them only die of old age, jumping out, or being bullied.
They always eat, are social, get along (unless I stupidly add something that I should not have), and never give me any problem.
I have no medications, hospital, or quarantine tank, and after a few minutes of acclimation, I put the fish right in, no matter if the tank they came from was heavily infected with some sort of parasites.
I also feed shellfish, and if I can get it live, I like it better because when we feed shellfish like clams, oysters, or mussels, we feed the entire creature, and those creatures are almost all guts as they don't have arms and legs to waste nutrients on. Those guts also seem to have the living bacteria and parasites that will keep our fish immune.
(Fish, and us need to be occasionally exposed to disease organisms, including parasites, to stay immune to them)
I am not sure about shellfish sold as “aquarium food” because they could be old, deep frozen, or irradiated to kill bacteria. Again, I am guessing here, so I like to buy living shellfish and freeze them myself if I can.
But living worms seem to work just as well. White worms can be had by Googling "white worm culture." You get a small supply for about fifteen bucks that you put in a shoe box-sized plastic container with damp potting soil. Keep them under about 80 degrees and feed dry cat food or bread with yogurt on it. I have a culture going for many years, and I get millions of inch-long worms.
Fish disease is a non-issue for me, and I believe it is due to the microbes in the food I have been feeding since the 70s.
Store-bought dry food, no matter what it is, will not have these healthy gut microbes; only living or freshly frozen "whole" creatures will have this.
Fish fillets, shrimp, octopus, and scallops will also not be as good for you, as you are only getting the muscle of those animals and not the gut microbes.
This food does not have to be fed at every meal, but “I” feel dry foods should never be fed except for short intervals like vacations.
Probiotics, while great (I take them myself), will also not have the full complement of microbes that are needed for immunity. Only the variety of bacteria that exist in living or freshly frozen animals will supply this.
So in short, I feel when we buy a fish, if we don’t already have a quarantined tank, acclimate the new fish, put it in your tank, and the first meal should be something like live worms or fresh shellfish, as I mentioned. Nothing else is needed, and dry foods should not be used except for vacation, but never at first. Whiteworms live in soil. Don’t be concerned if some of that soil gets in your tank. As a matter of fact, make sure some soil gets into your tank.
Someone posted not long ago that their fish died because it ate a piece of dirt! Really!. Fish eat poop, dirt won’t hurt them, and is actually needed
If this is followed and our fish are in a proper, natural tank with natural hiding places (no stark white PVC or anything man-made looking) and they are never medicated, they should end up immune to everything except jumping out or maybe your cat.
In the unlikely event that you disagree with this post, send me a SASE with your concern, and I will steam off the stamp and throw away the letter.
