Are Live Sales Ethical

bcarl77 · Mar 31, 2020

Given a few posts on a recent live sale, I have got to thinking are these live sales ethical? This thread is in no way to bash any vendor whatsoever so please do no name ANY vendors. Hear me out though. A vendor sells corals online regularly, say I can go onto the site and buy a torch for $400. During a livesale they mark the "original price" up to $650 and then "discount" it back to $400. To the average joe who wasn't shopping there before would think WOW $250 off, what a steal!!! Then with the format of posting say 6 corals at a time they create a panic buy situation (similar to the toilet paper thing) where the first to check out wins and the rush removes the logic. In this format, the average joe is so excited by his "discount" and the rush of getting it first they rush to purchase and are excited when they "win" the checkout game. In reality this person did not get a discount at all and the vendor is just manufacturing the sale.....

To me this is a deceiving tactic, and is a type of predatory pricing. As long as livesales are permissible (a form of gambling in a way) and people participate in them, this will continue. Unfortunately, most people do not religiously follow the prices on the 300+ frags on vendor sites and never know what a true discount is and the rush to buy before everyone else removes buyer logic.

GlassMunky · Mar 31, 2020

I honestly think most of the people who buy during these types of sales or live auctions actually prefer the gambling type of format.
just another way for them to get their gambling fix even if they don’t win they “had fun”

it doesn’t make sense to me, and I hate gambling in gereneral, but to each their own.
If you don’t like it you’re not forced to participate, or even watch or follow it.

GlassMunky · Mar 31, 2020

Also if you feel it’s unethical you have the choice of not supporting the store during their normal
Business as well.

homer1475 · Mar 31, 2020

I don't know about unethical, but people like to gamble(just look at how popular casino's are), and this is one way to get that "fix".

Never stepped foot in a casino, and I have no intentions of throwing my money away(I do that enough with this hobby). SO I don't participate.

And if your tracking 300+ corals on various vendors websites, you have bigger issues then these people.

Whos to say your not being unethical in calling vendors out on this? After all, they are in buisness to make money, and who are we to determine how they make that money as long as it's not illegal?

Theres an old saying that goes right along with what your saying:

A fool and his money, are soon parted.

This sort of thing goes on in every business(mark up right before a sale, then markdown to what the original price is/was).

Joekovar · Mar 31, 2020

Everything is worth what it's purchaser is willing to pay for it.

I've learned not to stick my nose in other people's transactions. The only thing it accomplishes, is ruining an otherwise joyful experience for the purchaser.

There's more to life than "how cheap can I get everything for".

Silent · Mar 31, 2020

It shouldn't matter if something is on sale or not. If it is for sale for a price you don't mind paying, than get it. If not, don't get it.
Don't buy something because of the group mentality. Buy something because you like it.
This seems to be more of a buyer problem than a seller problem. Learn self control.

bcarl77 · Mar 31, 2020

Let me just add this. I have participated in live sales and will probably continue to do so.

I feel like most stores are raising and selling corals ethically so I will continue to support them and buy from them regardless if they do an occasional livesale.

While this is not gambling, since you are definitely getting something in return if you checkout first, it creates a similar rush that if you have these tendencies it can get you into trouble. Does our hobby want to facilitates that? idk?

Lastly, I do not blame the vendors for doing it. The frag is absolutely what someone is willing to pay at any given moment. I can see a point saying yeah maybe ethical isn't the best word. Fair business practices? Idk, how I feel about it either, that's why I wanted to see what others think too.

dantimdad · Mar 31, 2020

I personally think live sales are stupid. But that's just me.

BUT, they are other people's cup of tea so I leave it alone.

I wish more folks shopped at brick and mortars though.

bcarl77 · Mar 31, 2020

dantimdad said:
I personally think live sales are stupid. But that's just me.

BUT, they are other people's cup of tea so I leave it alone.

I wish more folks shopped at brick and mortars though.

You usually can get the same deal or even better! LOL!!

JayKim · Mar 31, 2020

This happens all the time, not just in this hobby but retail in general. Make people think they are getting better deal than they are. I don't participate in live sales and I'll take a look if there's after (live) sale to see if something is worth buying.

NS Mike D · Mar 31, 2020

JayKim said:
This happens all the time, not just in this hobby but retail in general. Make people think they are getting better deal than they are. I don't participate in live sales and I'll take a look if there's after (live) sale to see if something is worth buying.

My ex F-I-L was the controller for a large retail department store chain. Yup, the retail price is mark up so that they could run sales. The sale price was what they expected the merchandise to move, and the regular price was gravy. On the other hand, the end of the season sales on excess inventory were marked down lower to clear the shelves for the new stuff and cut losses.

The internet had greatly evened the playing field as it's never been easier to comparison shop.

snowhite · Mar 31, 2020

The whole "shipping module" purchase arrangement always seems awkward and strange to me. Buy one first even if you don't know you're going to win something, but hey, we'll refund it if you don't win anything but still deal with getting a refund.
May just be me... not sure...

Any time i've fiddled around with live sales it's always sold sold sold sold "oh hey, here's one available for $400" sold sold sold sold sold sold

fish farmer · Mar 31, 2020

Not much different than ebay. I got into the bidding thing a couple of times for non coral items, one of a kind items. Once I started to see how much things actually were normally going for I would just find the "buy it now" and not waste my time on bidding..or offer a reasonable bid. The last thing I bidded on was a gold hammer I stopped at $45...it went for $75....if I had just bid a little bit more....

When I worked at a retail toy store when we opened boxes and priced things, we were already slashing the price with a red pen so it looked like they were on sale. Sometimes we would get premade prices already with the red slashed price.

S2G · Mar 31, 2020

I have some bad news about black friday for you

sde1500 · Mar 31, 2020

People want to see "sales". When JCP was headed by Ron Johnson, he removed coupons and all those sales, and cut prices to where they would actually sell for, and sales fell. People are so programmed to need a "deal" that they didn't want to buy at actually reduced prices, they had to revert to marking things up to mark them down to create sales. Is it unethical if thats what the consumer demands be done?

ADAM · Mar 31, 2020

The more I’ve just watched the live sales lately the more I have to agree with the OP, but I would not vote to remove the sales from the forum.

One BIG issue I’ve had is the use of the word “win” by the retailer.

I know exactly what the OP is referring to with “mark up to mark down”. I’ve seen numerous times when a coral I was contemplating purchasing at regular priced 350 hit the live sale thread with a new retail of 550 and the sale price of 335. I haven’t bought anything from them since.

Maybe people like $5 psammacora, lithos, or run of the mill zoas. The super cheap items appear to be the junk that comes in the shipment that the retailer wouldn’t have probably sold any other way.

I usually attend the live sales and not trying to bash either retailer or seller.

I personally can say as someone with self recognized addictive tendencies and impulsive nature that the live sales have started feeling really creepy. I bet that that most of the usual players in live sales have certainly had regretful feelings about the purchases when trying to shove 10-20 frags in an already packed tank and/ or, maybe the best teller of all, .....the credit card statement! I’ve never bought anything with time to think about the purchase and then regretted seeing the bill later. Theres been plenty of times that my “wins” struck a nerve when seeing them.

As I’m sure most will say: You don’t have have to participate.... but as someone who knows they have addictive and impulsive tendencies it’s not as easy as sounds. I’ll go to the sale looking for one or two specific items and 10 show up in the delivery. It’s like how most people don’t understand why someone can’t stop smoking.

The win is more enticing than the voice in your head to move to another thread.
.

vetteguy53081 · Mar 31, 2020

Live sales are Impulse sales and glad you recognize the mark UP before the mark DOWN. For this, I participate but find myself buying less and less from these sales and have a show tank full of coral and colonies from local or Private party with huge and true savings.
I owned a full line Pet stores for many years and know the wholesale and typical retail pricing and won't be fooled.

Sruiz · Mar 31, 2020

Seems like these type of deals happen everywhere. Supply and demand usually keep these type of sales active. Some people get mad at these tactics, others find it funny and stay away from these type of sales.
And as GlassMunkey stated above, some probably do it for the rush.

Miller535 · Mar 31, 2020

As others have said, I feel like that is just the nature of retail in general. And that as the consumer, it's up to you to research and see if you think you are getting a fair price. If you don't, then that's kind of on you.

bcarl77 · Mar 31, 2020

I think there is a difference here in some of the retail comparisons noted above. While yes the mindset of a sale or deal generates more sales you are comparing coral prices to consumer goods. The price for coral is purely set on rarity and popularity (look at the price of torches over the last 12 months). There is no assigned cost plus M/U (Like clothes at JCP), fair value is based on what the market pays. Therefore the pricing tatics used to influence sales (increase the price of my GSP to $100 and "discount" it to $25) based on perceived value can be dangerous to some people who don't know how to value GSP (same arguments made with less known SPS and no one knows what a fair price is, making the perceived deal more lucrative). Combine that with a panic situation (first to checkout) and you have these types of business practices.

And yeah, its good on the stores of finding ways to move product they would have a harder time selling... Is it in the best interest for the hobby and fair honest business, idk....