Are my new Tomato clowns fighting or establishing dominance?

2manyideas · Jul 17, 2021

I just bought two tomato clowns and a gorgeous bta for them to host/be hosted by. Both clowns came from the same tank at the LFS. My issue is that now that there is a bta in the mix the older tomato doesn’t let the younger one inside the bta. It’s allowed to be close but more often than not the older chases the younger away, they seem to “kiss” then the younger does the submissive quiver dance, the older replies with a much shorter quiver and the younger hides under a nearby shelf and the cycle repeats. Do I need to be concerned by this behavior? I really wanted both of them to live in the same bta. Should I take the older one back to the lfs and exchange it for a younger tomato? Just buy another bta for the younger tomato to live in? Wait it out and see if they settle the argument? I’m relatively new to reefing so I’m not sure how to handle the situation. As of right now I’m leaning towards waiting a few days but wanted to ask just in case.

DeniseAndy · Jul 17, 2021

First off, how large are the clowns? Do you know that one is younger or older for sure? Were they together by themselves at the LFS?
Second, the female will rule. She will be in the nem and the male will be where ever she allows him to be. It may be close, it may not. Once they actually spawn, they will be closer to each other and the nem.
The kissing is aggression. If they cannnot come to an agreement, one will have to go as they will both want the female position and death can occur.
Keep an eye on them. Some aggression is normal and how they establish dominance.

2manyideas · Jul 17, 2021

DeniseAndy said:
First off, how large are the clowns? Do you know that one is younger or older for sure? Were they together by themselves at the LFS?
Second, the female will rule. She will be in the nem and the male will be where ever she allows him to be. It may be close, it may not. Once they actually spawn, they will be closer to each other and the nem.
The kissing is aggression. If they cannnot come to an agreement, one will have to go as they will both want the female position and death can occur.
Keep an eye on them. Some aggression is normal and how they establish dominance.

The older clown is definitely full grown. I’d say about 3” and has darker coloration. The younger one is about 2”-2.5” and is much lighter in coloration with almost no black/brown present. They were kept together with two other Tomato clowns in a frag tank.

Billldg · Jul 17, 2021

DeniseAndy said:
First off, how large are the clowns? Do you know that one is younger or older for sure? Were they together by themselves at the LFS?
Second, the female will rule. She will be in the nem and the male will be where ever she allows him to be. It may be close, it may not. Once they actually spawn, they will be closer to each other and the nem.
The kissing is aggression. If they cannnot come to an agreement, one will have to go as they will both want the female position and death can occur.
Keep an eye on them. Some aggression is normal and how they establish dominance.

HEY, I object to the Female allowing the Male to be where she wants him to be!!! ;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious

Just Kidding!!!

@DeniseAndy is correct, they are setting the role of male and female, and the female does rule the nem.;Hilarious

;Hilarious

Marinelifelover · Jul 17, 2021

Had a similar issue a long time ago and the aggressive one had to go....even after a 2nd BTA was added. She was chewing the fins of the male

2manyideas · Jul 17, 2021

Billldg said:
HEY, I object to the Female allowing the Male to be where she wants him to be!!! ;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious

Just Kidding!!!

@DeniseAndy is correct, they are setting the role of male and female, and the female does rule the nem.;Hilarious;Hilarious

Much different than my Picasso, Ocellaris and carpet in my other tank. They are constantly next to each other both in and out of the nem. Those two however, (Pico the Picasso and Gallo the Ocellaris) are about the same age with Gallo being a smidge older, about 1.5” and have definitely had time to figure out dominance. I suppose I thought it would be the same story with the Tomato’s however they are more aggressive so I should have taken that into account.

2manyideas · Jul 17, 2021

Marinelifelover said:
Had a similar issue a long time ago and the aggressive one had to go....even after a 2nd BTA was added. She was chewing the fins of the male

The aggressive one does look old as well like it’s been through some stuff. The other one looks young. I may end up trading the older one if they don’t settle it soon.

2manyideas · Jul 17, 2021

The suspects. I hope you all can see the video.

Billldg · Jul 17, 2021

2manyideas said:
Much different than my Picasso, Ocellaris and carpet in my other tank. They are constantly next to each other both in and out of the nem. Those two however, (Pico the Picasso and Gallo the Ocellaris) are about the same age with Gallo being a smidge older, about 1.5” and have definitely had time to figure out dominance. I suppose I thought it would be the same story with the Tomato’s however they are more aggressive so I should have taken that into account.

Unfortunately, you can never tell as they are in the Damsel family.

2manyideas · Jul 17, 2021

Billldg said:
Unfortunately you can never tell as they are in the Damsel family.

So I’m learning! The more I watch them the more… tolerant they seem of each other. It’s a lot better when the lights are on but the aggression is still present. This has prompted the younger clown to take interest in a nearby frammer which could also be neat.

2manyideas · Jul 18, 2021

Woke up to the anemone moved and both clowns in it! I must have been overreacting.

DeniseAndy · Jul 18, 2021

They do not look too old as tomatoes can get quite big. It does settle down, normally. They are pretty.
Hope they settle in.
Over a year in and my clarkiis just started being near each other. Although I think it is due to the nems being next to each other. The female is quite large so hoping for eggs soon. But my fingers are not ready.

Oops, I thought I posted this yesterday. My bad, at least they are good now.

Hot2na · Jul 18, 2021

just a wild guess based on the video..the larger may be a melanopus ???

2manyideas · Jul 18, 2021

DeniseAndy said:
They do not look too old as tomatoes can get quite big. It does settle down, normally. They are pretty.
Hope they settle in.
Over a year in and my clarkiis just started being near each other. Although I think it is due to the nems being next to each other. The female is quite large so hoping for eggs soon. But my fingers are not ready.

Oops, I thought I posted this yesterday. My bad, at least they are good now.

Sorry for the algae on the glass but this is after feeding time and they seem to be doing well. I’m acclimating new corals to lights (they were only under blues at the lfs) so now that the lights are on for the moment the clowns are much more active, exploring the tank and loving their new home.