Are pride and hard work dead?

[G_Sanab922]

a lot of eyes on this thread waiting for the drama to continue... *heating up some popcorn*

 

[Harry_Y]

 

[TheEngineer]

^-- that's funny, but I think this has been a very civil conversation with next to no drama. Just discussion.

 

[Newb73]

My lfs does it to themselves. I would gladly buy from them but they refuse to carry , Neptune, Reef Octoups, Ecotech, AI, or Tunze. According to them there is no market and stick just sits on the selves. I dusagree, I would have spent enough to buyou a new Nissan versa if they carried everything I needed in their storeyes (though that would have to have included the tank)

In addition to teaching Zoology, I work in a store that sells birding specialty gear. Amazon was caught last week violating the terms of agreement with one of the high end binocular companies. We sell them at the lowest price the company allows them to be sold. A patron came in and wanted a new pair, but wanted us to match Amazon's price, which was $120 less than our price, which again, is the lowest the company allows them to be sold for. Amazon just lost their distributorship license for that high end company, and were fined per original agreement with the company. I wonder how much that is going on? To say nothing of the sales tax losses states face, and the loss to the local economy. I live in Mississippi- arguably the poorest state in the nation. I learned from a friend that works for the Mississippi Economic Development authority that Mississippi is losing $1 billion a year to lost sales tax revenue due to Amazon. We can't afford that! One of our two LFS locales has already gone out of business due to online, non-taxed, bulk profit sales. I just hope I don't lose the last one in my area. That lost store cost our economy 8 jobs, the owners life savings, and no telling how much lost sales tax revenue.

 

[tigé21v]

@icecool2 I love this thread! You've stirred up a good one.
We all know, unfortunately, no one will ever offer a trial program. they would be fools to do so. Not because it could potentially drive up sales, but because unfortunately for every one of us who do care and are genuine, there is a handful of others who are not. (Not to mention the average LFS can't afford to have that kind of money tied up in equipment that is not needed for their daily operation.)
I could be wrong, because I admittedly wasn't following things too close for a period of time shortly after purchasing the jebaos. (A massive coral loss took the wind out of my sails for a while and the tanks just kind of ran on auto pilot.) If I am mistaken, I apologize. But I think the jebaos did more to drive down the price of the vortechs than the gyres did. Seems like the jebaos took the Tunze design and gave it something very similar to the vortech's control. I seem to recall price adjustments starting sometime shortly thereafter. IMO, the jebao is a closer competitor to the vortech than the gyre is, especially given the gyre's limited control out of the box.
Also interesting, it seems (to me at least), the original jebaos took a little bit of the Big Two for their design. They at least made an effort at camouflage.
This new one, though- there's no effort in trying to disguise it.

 

[Newb73]

Generic medicines have identical ingredients. Generic wave makers do not conform to the same standards. Before you ask me to explain, see my previous post.

When I go to the grocery should I not by store brand products because they are cheaper and identical to some other products? Should I not by the CVS brand medicine that does the same thing as the +$5 item?

Sure, people recognize quality items and will go with that while others will choose to save their money and get the same effect. Obviously some people will by a certain product just because it gives them a holier than thou feeling even though at the end of the day they are only fooling themselves.

How many of you here have went to buy something and at the end of the day said hell I can go home and make that for a 1/10 of the price?! I'm pretty sure many of you have and many of you do...Jebao just decided to profit on it.

Enjoy your knitting circle.

 

[shoelaceike]

The issue is that the Maxspect is awesome but way overpriced. Why is this $30 and the gyre $300?

http://www.amazon.com/JVP-402-Aquarium-Circulation-Wavemaker-Powerhead/dp/B008EKKSPU

At least with Ecotech, you are getting premium quality and the latest in technology. Also overpriced though....

 

[shoelaceike]

The issue is that the Maxspect is awesome but way overpriced. Why is this $30 and the gyre $300?

http://www.amazon.com/JVP-402-Aquarium-Circulation-Wavemaker-Powerhead/dp/B008EKKSPU

At least with Ecotech, you are getting premium quality and the latest in technology. Also overpriced though....

The Gyre is UL listed and this is most likely not....still it seems as if it was priced like this to put itself with the premium pumps

 

[TomatoSauceTy]

Generic medicines have identical ingredients. Generic wave makers do not confirm to the same standards. Before you ask me to explain, see my previous post.

Yes, I was wrong with that comparison, sorry.

 

[The Macro Guy]

It's all made in Mexico/China/Korea anyways. The big players in the industry need to get with the times and stop charging $800+ for lights on a tank, when you need 4 of them just to light it properly, or $300+ for a wave maker when in most instances you need 2+. They do it because there are a lot of wealthy people in this hobby that will pay ridiculous amounts of money for something they think is going to make their tanks better.

MP40 vs Jebao RW20, for the price of half of 1 mp40, you can get 2 RW20. You normally need 2 - 3 for anything over 100g.

Jebao Gyre vs Max Gyre, basically half the price.

For my 200g, 1 Gyre fx150 was a huge disappointment. If I could, I would've gone back to my 2 RW20's. As is I need another fx150 to hit all the dead spots without causing a sand storm or ripping flesh off of LPS.

 

[Newb73]

This way I see it in terms of replacement parts. Vortech-Westside $75.00. I think a replacement controller is about $120.00. If you had to replace an entire wav it would be 199.0. The Gyre is also extremely modular in design. While the gyre may require a yearly investment I would argue that Vortech, tunze and I'll predict the Wav will not....probably more on the order of every three to five years for a replacement part.

With a jaebo you just run it till the Motorblock or controller dies-usually 12 to 20 months, trash it and buy a whole new unit.

I would argue that after the initial investment, top tier pumps cost the same or less to keep in service than Jaebos.....so who is REALLY ripping you off?

I would argue the company that expects to keep selling you the same pump over and over again is the real crook.

It's all made in Mexico/China/Korea anyways. The big players in the industry need to get with the times and stop charging $800+ for lights on a tank, when you need 4 of them just to light it properly, or $300+ for a wave maker when in most instances you need 2+. They do it because there are a lot of wealthy people in this hobby that will pay ridiculous amounts of money for something they think is going to make their tanks better.

MP40 vs Jebao RW20, for the price of half of 1 mp40, you can get 2 RW20. You normally need 2 - 3 for anything over 100g.

Jebao Gyre vs Max Gyre, basically half the price.

For my 200g, 1 Gyre fx150 was a huge disappointment. If I could, I would've gone back to my 2 RW20's. As is I need another fx150 to hit all the dead spots without causing a sand storm or ripping flesh off of LPS.

 

[mcarroll]

AFAIK, Tunze is made right there in the shop in Germany.

That's a good example of the honest ignorance that leads to people to buy Jebao and to devalue an authentic product.

The better question is why are they willing to sell a decent pump for $30? The answer is they are not. Neither willing nor selling a decent pump.

It's definitely possible to overpay for something, but there is no free lunch, people.

 

[blackdogal73]

I would have to agree that the Kelo looks very much like Kesil... But so does the Halo. I believe they all operate pretty much the same way also.

I don't know if all these products should be seen as "knockoffs", or more as a wake up to vendors that think they are above reproach.

I've seen some of these higher end pieces of equipment in brick and mortar stores, but the prices are so high that I would be negligent of my family duties to not look for it used or another way to accomplish the same thing. Chain pet stores usually won't carry them because the vendor can't manufacture enough to get the price low enough for their intended customers.

What sets a lot of the high priced stuff apart is customer service... But that could be said for any product or service.

Cheap products with bad customer service will always go away. Vendors with high priced items that truly care about their business and customers will diligently work to get out the same great product at a better price.

In any endeavor, you will see struggle, failure and success. Great ideas will come to flourish or fade way before they should have.

The fact that people in this thread are willing to actually converse and trade ideas with respect for one another proves that pride and hard work are not dead.

I for one, despite all the adversity around us, hope that the vendors trying to sell "like" items, are doing it for the best of reasons. I know we all like to blame the almighty dollar, but I choose to see them as "choices" instead.

I won't buy counterfeit, but I will pay for diversity and hope form follows function. There's more than one way to skin a cat, but there are also only so many ways to do it, to.

We can learn from our failure and bad experience just like we learn from our success and good experience. Educate but don't bash, and I believe we all have something to contribute.

 

[cmcoker]

Generic medicines have identical ingredients. Generic wave makers do not conform to the same standards. Before you ask me to explain, see my previous post.

I believe generics medicines are actually allowed looser tolerances as well. They can be up to x% less effective.
That is why some Dr will write scripts for name brand only.

 

[shoelaceike]

An ironic twist to all this is the Icecap backup battery which had been introduced as the back up for the Gyre, is actually made by jebao.

 

[TaylorPilot]

An ironic twist to all this is the Icecap backup battery which had been introduced as the back up for the Gyre, is actually made by jebao.

I had heard that before, but also heard that it wasn't true. That they looked similar, but the batteries are of much different quality. I will say there is some validity towards the fact of using higher quality batteries. Look at all of those hoverboards burning up.

 

[shoelaceike]

I had heard that before, but also heard that it wasn't true. That they looked similar, but the batteries are of much different quality. I will say there is some validity towards the fact of using higher quality batteries. Look at all of those hoverboards burning up.

All I know is that they look exactly the same and there was a Jebao instruction sheet in the box:)

 

[TheEngineer]

All I know is that they look exactly the same and there was a Jebao instruction sheet in the box:)

If that's the case that would make this even stranger. Ha!

 

[cb684]

For me it is simple. I do not understand enough of the engineering of the equipment or the law. I can only see how its shell looks like, but I do not know where the technology was before it was invented or adapted or how much of it was copied. For that there are laws that are designed to protect inventors. And for the execution of the law engineer experts and in lawyers will be heard before de decision is made. Now, judge myself without that information I will not do it. Until Jebao is proven guilty of infringing a patent I believe they are innocent.

 

[Th0rn]

One thing I have noticed is that many companies, maxspect, kessil ,etc get other companies making copies of their products but this is not the case with ecotech. I have never seen another product that operates or look anything like the mp powerhead seires and the same goes for radion lights. Anyone know why? Maybe they constantly troll for similar products to theirs and then they use their copyright to get rid of those products?