Are pride and hard work dead?

[reefjerk]

It wasn't bashing, it was a legitimate question in which I already know the answer too, selective history was taught in the early days (Here too) and so these types of "myths" are prevalent these days, despite the plethora of information available on the web.

I didn't realize the thread was 15 pages long when I replied, I missed that.

 

[runzwithscissors]

It wasn't bashing, it was a legitimate question in which I already know the answer too, selective history was taught in the early days (Here too) and so these types of "myths" are prevalent these days, despite the plethora of information available on the web.

I didn't realize the thread was 15 pages long when I replied, I missed that.

Yes, please don't waste perfectly good coffee[emoji6]

 

[jbf16falcon]

I'm glad there is competition, otherwise the prices would stay high and there would be no incentive to improve the product or give me more features over the competitors product. It's tough but look at all the improvements made in the last 20 years because you as a product producer had to keep moving forward or fall by the wayside. There has been a positive side benefit to having knock-off companies around "steady progress". Those that want to keep high profit margins and do little R&D scream the loudest.

 

[wpeterson]

I'm disappointed by all of the racism/xenophobia people are expressing toward China :-/

Jebao is not a premium producer or brand. They do make some solid products without much of any marketing. You don't get much of a warranty or support and you won't find them in many local fish stores. Are they really a threat to the Kessil/Ecotech/Neptunes of the world? I don't think people would ever confuse one for the other.

You can find both well manufactured and cheaply manufactured goods in China, the origin doesn't tell you anything about the quality. If anything, there's a ton of chicanery and obfuscation around global supply chains that make it difficult to know where anything comes from. I wouldn't be surprised if Jebao products and competitors are produced on the same assembly line, but just marketed and sold as different brands.

When I buy an Ecotech or Kessil product, I know lifetime support is pre-paid in the premium pricing. When I buy Jebao products, I usually buy two because I know it might fail and I can't expect any support - but two might be cheaper by far than a premium product. Neither of those choices is morally superior, but most hobbyists understand the difference.

 

[Paul B]

I personally have no problem with China or any place else. I also don't buy because it is cheap, I would just "rather" try to support an American if I can. If it is not made here, Of course I have to buy from China or make it myself.

 

[TheEngineer]

I'm disappointed by all of the racism/xenophobia people are expressing toward China :-/

In this thread?

Jebao is not a premium producer or brand. They do make some solid products without much of any marketing. You don't get much of a warranty or support and you won't find them in many local fish stores.

Every LFS in my area stocks several different pumps from them.

Are they really a threat to the Kessil/Ecotech/Neptunes of the world? I don't think people would ever confuse one for the other.

Are you sure about that? Without any external references, who made the light on the left and who made the light on the right?

 

[TylerS]

Are you sure about that? Without any external references, who made the light on the left and who made the light on the right?

There are legal means to fight patent infringement (including design patents to protect against look alikes such as the above pictured products) and protect your inventions because if you don't then someone will knock it off. Unfortunately there's enough sucky people in the world that it's inevitable.

So in a situation like the two pictures you posted above it's Kessils problem not ours. Kessil should be out innovating or producing a premium product worth the extra cost. If I can't tell the difference between the premium product and the knock off performance or quality wise, and there's no patent protection, then shame on Kessil for not properly running their business to protect their employee's jobs and profit from copycats who don't know how to engineer.

 

[jasonandsarah]

Are you sure about that? Without any external references, who made the light on the left and who made the light on the right?

Light on the left is a copy and the light on the right is a kessil. [emoji3]

 

[BkReefBaby]

Is pride and hard work dead? No
Most companies wether it's this hobby or a different one has imitated or taken inspiration from previous companies. The first post mentions the "maxspect gyre". Maxspect did invent the power head they took an idea and added a twist to it. In the previous post some people mention Kessil as if they invented the led matrix. THEY DID NOT INVENT THE LED MATRIX!. So anyone getting mad at an Asian company saying oh Kessil needs to sue is not correct. DiCon lighting invented the dense led matrix and Kessil used it for aquarium and plant lighting these light they mention it right on their site. This lighting was used for photography and movie cameras before this hobby. These are just facts. I can never be mad at an Asian company for making products affordable because there are already American companies outsourcing their products trying to make it affordable to us. Do some research,.... people think cause something says it's an American company automatically everything is being done here, No!. A lot American companies outsource because it's cheaper. Look at Apple prime example!
Just think about it there is some poor Asian kid making pumps t shirts all sorts of electronics for us!!! Getting paid in pennies! If that's not hard work on his end I don't know what is! I can go deep into globalization I'm a union organizer so I learned all about this! People are working hard we just aren't seeing it!

 

[Paul B]

A lot of American manufacturers outsourse not just because it is cheap, but because many parts are just not made here no matter how much you want to pay. My product uses a phone charger, they are not built here. Flourescent light bulbs are also not made here. One reason is that we don't know what to do with the left over mercury. China doesn't worry about that so they can build them. Anything with PCBs are also not made here for the same problem.

 

[BkReefBaby]

In my Opinion, sticking to the question that started this thread. I just think that PRIDE AND HARD WORK IS NOT DEAD. In one of your previous post you mentioned the money you spent on patents im sure getting the money for the patents took hard work am i correct? coming up with your product im also sure took you hard work. Im sure you want your product to be the best because you take pride in your work! You even said you're not in it for the money. (NOT SAYING YOU PUT THE PLAME ON ANYONE @Paul B ) But for anyone to blame a few rotten apples in every industry that steal and copy products and then generalize a question and ask if hard work and pride dead is wrong "in my opinion". There are so many companies in this industry who put in hard work and take pride in what they do. Just to make an example Reef Saavy didnt reinvent the wheel meaning they didnt invent the fish tank or reinvent the fish tank, BUT EVERY ONE HERE KNOWS THEY ARE ONE THE BEST COMPANIES WHO PUTS IN HARD WORK AND THEY HAVE PRIDE IN THE TANKS THEY MAKE!
I didnt read through this whole thread because its way too long but if i repeated something someone else said lol im sorry for the redundancy. The better question would have been IS INNOVATION DEAD IN THIS INDUSTRY? which i also believe is NO, just because items arent being invented over night doesnt mean there isnt someone out there working hard trying to create a new or an improvement on a product.!

 

[GatorGuys]

There are legal means to fight patent infringement (including design patents to protect against look alikes such as the above pictured products) and protect your inventions because if you don't then someone will knock it off.

That is not entirely true... You have to apply for a patent in EVERY country you want to protect your intellectual property in - and some countries do not even allow patent protection. Patents are expensive - and if someone starts to copy you, you then have to hire lawyers and PROVE that your patented product is protected in their country and their design is close enough to yours that they infringed. The burden of protecting their product is on the inventor! This makes it very time consuming and expensive.

 

[Paul B]

That is true, I have a patent and tried to get an international patent but for a private inventor, that is not going to happen because you need a lawyer on the payroll in all those countries. My product can be made anywhere outside the US, but it is illegal to import it to here. The patent doesn't do anything for you by itself, it just allows you to sue if you have the funds.

 

[that Reef Guy]

Is pride and hard work dead? No
Most companies wether it's this hobby or a different one has imitated or taken inspiration from previous companies. The first post mentions the "maxspect gyre". Maxspect did invent the power head they took an idea and added a twist to it. In the previous post some people mention Kessil as if they invented the led matrix. THEY DID NOT INVENT THE LED MATRIX!. So anyone getting mad at an Asian company saying oh Kessil needs to sue is not correct. DiCon lighting invented the dense led matrix and Kessil used it for aquarium and plant lighting these light they mention it right on their site. This lighting was used for photography and movie cameras before this hobby. These are just facts. I can never be mad at an Asian company for making products affordable because there are already American companies outsourcing their products trying to make it affordable to us. Do some research,.... people think cause something says it's an American company automatically everything is being done here, No!. A lot American companies outsource because it's cheaper. Look at Apple prime example!
Just think about it there is some poor Asian kid making pumps t shirts all sorts of electronics for us!!! Getting paid in pennies! If that's not hard work on his end I don't know what is! I can go deep into globalization I'm a union organizer so I learned all about this! People are working hard we just aren't seeing it!

Actually Kessil is DiCon.

DiCon ownes Kessil and is the Parent Company.

 

[that Reef Guy]

That is not entirely true... You have to apply for a patent in EVERY country you want to protect your intellectual property in - and some countries do not even allow patent protection. Patents are expensive - and if someone starts to copy you, you then have to hire lawyers and PROVE that your patented product is protected in their country and their design is close enough to yours that they infringed. The burden of protecting their product is on the inventor! This makes it very time consuming and expensive.

This is True Getting a Patent Protects you from somebody in American from Copying your Invention.

China does not care and I am told actually encourages copying other peoples stuff.

Microsoft once sued a Company in China.

Amazingly China Ruled in Favor of Microsoft.

The Outcome:

China fined the Company that Lost around 500 Dollars and they got to Stay in Business.
Microsoft Spent around 50 Million Fighting the Battle.

So in the end did Microsoft Really Win - Nope