Are pride and hard work dead?

[TheEngineer]

I believe generics medicines are actually allowed looser tolerances

From the Google:
Generic medications must contain the exact same active ingredients as the brand name and are chemically equivalent. A brand-name drug and its generic version must have the same active ingredient, dosage, safety, strength, usage directions, quality, performance and intended use. Brand-name firms are linked to an estimated 50% of generic drug production. They frequently make generic copies of their own or other brand-name drugs, then sell them with a generic name.

 

[DunkCityReefer]

As far as pricing and quality go it's 100% true that you get what you pay for. Jebao knockoffs are nice for 2-3 months then they stop working or lose strength. They get away with charging less for a similar product because they don't have to go through R&D which cost companies like maxspect a lot of money. I bought from jebao before and won't again. If you plan on being in the hobby for a few months then I highly recommend buying knockoffs, but long term you'll save money and enjoy the better quality by going with companies like kessil, maxspect, and ecotech. Just my .02

 

[TaylorPilot]

All I know is that they look exactly the same and there was a Jebao instruction sheet in the box:)

LOL, maybe they should have atleast re-typed the manual....

 

[Newb73]

I believe generics medicines are actually allowed looser tolerances as well. They can be up to x% less effective.
That is why some Dr will write scripts for name brand only.

Not exactly.

Look at an off brand cold medicine. It will have active ingredients such as acetaminophen, ibuprofen, pseudo ephedrine, benadryl, dextromorphan etc. in identical concentrations.

I'm not aware of any studies suggesting these identical ingredients in identical concentrations are made using sub par standards and or with impurities. ....although I could be wrong and if I am....I would love to see that research. I'm talking academic research. (I work in health care).

 

[Newb73]

AI was a very close competitor to Ecotech. Hydra vs Radion...both been around for a long time. Same company now though.

 

[Th0rn]

AI was a very close competitor to Ecotech. Hydra vs Radion...both been around for a long time. Same company now though.

I am pretty sure they are not the same company.

 

[cmcoker]

From the Google:
Generic medications must contain the exact same active ingredients as the brand name and are chemically equivalent. A brand-name drug and its generic version must have the same active ingredient, dosage, safety, strength, usage directions, quality, performance and intended use. Brand-name firms are linked to an estimated 50% of generic drug production. They frequently make generic copies of their own or other brand-name drugs, then sell them with a generic name.

You are right.

However, they don't require the same inactive ingredients.

One veterinary product to look at is Frontline Plus. There is a plethora of generic fipronil (active ingredient in Frontline) based products on the shelf at the pet stores and big box store.

From my experience, as a Veterinary technician, the generics don't work as well. The carrier in the generic products is inferior, and we commonly see pets treated with the generic fipronil have flea problems. The carrier is what moves the fipronil over the skin and keeps it there to be effective.

We do not recommend the generic, and not just because we lose the sale. We recommend people to buy the name brand, even directing them to online retailers of Frontline.

I know of at least two people who need a certain brand name of medication for hyperthyroidism, a generic does not regulate them in the same way and they will get symptoms of their hyperthyroidism returning with a different brand/generic drug, for whatever reason. Granted that is anecdotal.

 

[shoelaceike]

I am pretty sure they are not the same company.

They merged.

 

[TheEngineer]

However, they don't require the same inactive ingredients.

I do believe you are quite correct. My wife can only take a brand name of her one medication. The generic didn't work for her. For the point of this discussion, the focus would be on the active (patentable) ingredient. Although combinations of medication have been attempted to be patented in the past... that's a whole other issue.

 

[Th0rn]

Wow I never new that ecotech marine and AI merged!

 

[shoelaceike]

Wow I never new that ecotech marine and AI merged!

How else can they make sure high end lighting stays high priced :)

 

[Lowell Lemon]

In addition to teaching Zoology, I work in a store that sells birding specialty gear. Amazon was caught last week violating the terms of agreement with one of the high end binocular companies. We sell them at the lowest price the company allows them to be sold. A patron came in and wanted a new pair, but wanted us to match Amazon's price, which was $120 less than our price, which again, is the lowest the company allows them to be sold for. Amazon just lost their distributorship license for that high end company, and were fined per original agreement with the company. I wonder how much that is going on? To say nothing of the sales tax losses states face, and the loss to the local economy. I live in Mississippi- arguably the poorest state in the nation. I learned from a friend that works for the Mississippi Economic Development authority that Mississippi is losing $1 billion a year to lost sales tax revenue due to Amazon. We can't afford that! One of our two LFS locales has already gone out of business due to online, non-taxed, bulk profit sales. I just hope I don't lose the last one in my area. That lost store cost our economy 8 jobs, the owners life savings, and no telling how much lost sales tax revenue.

One of the problems in your statement is the total price or landed cost. Many times items have a shipping cost the raises the final cost. The other is regulation of taxes on the internet. It is problematic just like a local garage sale. Would you like to have to spend an hour filling out a form, getting a business license for each state and local municipality that your product was delivered too? That would be one of the problems with enforcement and a logistical nightmare for customers and businesses. How about paying taxes on items you resold used and had already paid taxes on when you purchased it new? Would you like to pay taxes on items you are already loosing money on due to the failure to sell at a the cost level? Internet taxes will only create problems in the long run. Just take a look at railroads. They have to figure the taxes per state on payroll as the train rolls through the state per employee. Why not pay all the taxes in the state the train originates and returns to for that employee...in a sense you are stealing from the state that provides the labor. I think in most cases things sold in a state and delivered in that state are already taxed and that is fair and far enough from a practical stand point.

 

[Th0rn]

How else can they make sure high end lighting stays high priced :)

Lol:)

 

[TheEngineer]

But that type of language is allowed right?

I owe you an apology. I did not see that you were emboldening a word from someone else's post. I don't agree with disparaging terms like that and didn't notice it.

 

[Newb73]

http://ecotechmarine.com/news/ecotech-marine-aqua-illumination-ai-announce-merger

I am pretty sure they are not the same company.

Eureka....in all these years I never considered inactive ingredients although I agree with you that there is SOME research out there indicating the inactive ingredients can impede or facilitate delivery and efficacy.

Touche' mon fare!!

You are right.

However, they don't require the same inactive ingredients.

One veterinary product to look at is Frontline Plus. There is a plethora of generic fipronil (active ingredient in Frontline) based products on the shelf at the pet stores and big box store.

From my experience, as a Veterinary technician, the generics don't work as well. The carrier in the generic products is inferior, and we commonly see pets treated with the generic fipronil have flea problems. The carrier is what moves the fipronil over the skin and keeps it there to be effective.

We do not recommend the generic, and not just because we lose the sale. We recommend people to buy the name brand, even directing them to online retailers of Frontline.

I know of at least two people who need a certain brand name of medication for hyperthyroidism, a generic does not regulate them in the same way and they will get symptoms of their hyperthyroidism returning with a different brand/generic drug, for whatever reason. Granted that is anecdotal.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

One of the biggest problems is the Chinese government does not follow or uphold patent laws. In many cases the same factory that makes contract parts for a well know partner sells "their" product out the back door for less. This is a clear violation of patent law and is very dishonest and unethical. Yet this is acceptable in China. This is why many companies in this country only buy "parts" from several different suppliers and assemble the final product somewhere else. It delays the inevitable knock off of the product. I would prefer American made products for American consumers. Or to deal with overseas companies like Tunze and Eheim where the bulk of the manufacturing and assembly is in house and in country.

Until the cost of delivery and assembly is lowered by new technology like 3D printing this will not happen. Most of the mold injection in this country is now outsourced over seas. This is a major problem for the United States and Consumers. The landed cost of items made overseas is not that much lower than U.S, made products due to import duties, taxes, and shipping cost from Asia. I have been looking at importation of glass low-iron tanks from Asia and so far the risk is not worth the reward. Not to mention who wants to by from a company associated with Alibaba (and the forty thieves)....what a name...what an experience for many. I think it would be better to control the quality and process here and sell it at a slightly higher cost.

 

[TheEngineer]

Most of the mold injection in this country is now outsourced over seas

Friend of mine works for a major injection molding company in the US and I contract work out to one in Belgium. Both tried to outsource production to Asia and wound up bringing it all back within 2 years. The quality wasn't there. You can only expect someone being paid next to nothing to put only so much effort into something.

 

[gcrawford]

An interesting thought.......re-read this thread and instead of the word "Pump" replace it with "HDMI cable". I hope no one purchases these made in china or through Amazon.

$.02

 

[TaylorPilot]

An interesting thought.......re-read this thread and instead of the word "Pump" replace it with "HDMI cable". I hope no one purchases these made in china or through Amazon.

$.02

LOL, I get your point, but an HDMI cable is a standard, like USB. The argument here is that Maxspect has created a product that is unique enough that they have the exclusive right to produce a pump in that style. Others agree, and don't care cause they want it cheaper, while even others think that they haven't really created anything that didn't already exist because squirrel cages have been used forever to move air. I am not a patent lawyer, but I imagine that there aren't enough original ideas here to keep someone from producing a pump in the "style" of a centrifugal blower. I doubt they can get a patent for producing a blower style fan, since everyone already uses them. They can probably get them for the name, the style of mounting bracket, or some other visual similarity, but that would be easy enough to change to make it not violate.

 

[gcrawford]

I used to have a hair dryer that had that type of squirrel cage used to blow air - I believe in the late 70s.

Agreed, HDMI is a standard. What if there were only one place to get the cables? I read here that someone said "Competition is a bad thing". I wonder if everyone here that are in favor of MAP pricing would or have purchased the expensive, shiny HDMI cables at big box stores for $100 when a similar cable can be had on amazon for $6. There is actually a company in the USA that makes these cables - Bluejeanscable - and they are even sold on amazon. A 6 foot cable does cost around $24. FWIW, I didn't know about the company before today when this thread provoked thought. I guess nobody stole a patent, but they are making the same thing - with quality standards and engineering data about their products for customers to see.