Are there ANY consistent sources for pure darwins left?

[Isosceles]

Been on the hunt for pure darwins for awhile now. I know sustainable aquatics does a decent job of keeping things like their A. milii pure but I'm not sure if this applies to their darwins as well. I reached out to ibluewater mere minutes ago so we'll see what comes of that. My LFS gets "black and white ocellaris" from ORA, QM labs, and biota, but as far as I know/have seen these are nowhere near pure and some don't even turn fully black. Even if they did they still come with other problems like weird head/fin shapes + proportions.

 

[Tamberav]

I was going to say Sustainable Aquatics would be the best bet. Matt Peterson used to say they were the closet to pure for the Darwin’s. I suppose something could have changed in the years since Covid but I would certainly reach out to SA.

 

[OrionN]

I saw pure black Ocellaris at Petco often. There is no reason to suspect that Black Ocellaris are not pure.

 

[Isosceles]

I saw pure black Ocellaris at Petco often. There is no reason to suspect that Black Ocellaris are not pure.

My main concern is the face turning black with age
Deformities as well but this is to be expected with any clowns

 

[TommyF]

Been on the hunt for pure darwins for awhile now. I know sustainable aquatics does a decent job of keeping things like their A. milii pure but I'm not sure if this applies to their darwins as well. I reached out to ibluewater mere minutes ago so we'll see what comes of that. My LFS gets "black and white ocellaris" from ORA, QM labs, and biota, but as far as I know/have seen these are nowhere near pure and some don't even turn fully black. Even if they did they still come with other problems like weird head/fin shapes + proportions.

I share your appreciation of pure Darwin clownfish. I suggest you contact Robert King, who has a wild caught breeding pair over 30 years old. [email protected]

 

[Isosceles]

I share your appreciation of pure Darwin clownfish. I suggest you contact Robert King, who has a wild caught breeding pair over 30 years old. [email protected]

Thank you, I've managed to get in contact with him. Seems my biocube will have some permanent residents soon.

 

[TommyF]

Thank you, I've managed to get in contact with him. Seems my biocube will have some permanent residents soon.

Isosceles, please keep me posted on your experience with these Darwins. Thank you!

 

[Isosceles]

Isosceles, please keep me posted on your experience with these Darwins. Thank you!

I'll tag you in the post when I get them

 

[Louis Z]

I have some “Darwin’s “ but these have a tinge of red in their face .but by and large black white . It would be nice to have a purer form of Darwin’s .

 

[TommyF]

Hi Louis, where and when did you get your “Darwins”?

 

[liddojunior]

My main concern is the face turning black with age
Deformities as well but this is to be expected with any clowns

Isn’t the face suppose to be black? But yeah I’ve seen plenty of pure black and white striped clowns at petco

 

[TommyF]

Isn’t the face suppose to be black? But yeah I’ve seen plenty of pure black and white striped clowns at petco

Do you know where Petco sourced those clowns?

 

[liddojunior]

Do you know where Petco sourced those clowns?

Petco gets fish from ORA, biota, Quality marine and used to get from liveaquaria
They basically carry the same thing everyone else does for the most part

 

[Louis Z]

Yes I agree ORA is a big source of clowns .. the LFs I frequent would buy from ORA and QM . sustainable aquatics also sells many clowns . Biota sells chrysopterus . There are so many crosses now. Designer clowns seem to be in vogue with higher prices . Petco is sourcing clowns from ORA ., I have seen some used to be rarely seen clowns now showing up in petco . Which I think is awesome . It’s just the question of how many different species of clowns can you fit in a tank without aggression . My female darwinesque clown is brutal . I have had her for 7years . She is able to stand up to my 7-8in emperor angel that is top dog of the tank . I really want to add chrysopterus or a white stripe maroon from PNG or Blackfoot A.nigripes . I just don’t think that a peaceful outcome would ensue .

 

[Isosceles]

Isn’t the face suppose to be black? But yeah I’ve seen plenty of pure black and white striped clowns at petco

yes, that's what I mean, perhaps i worded it wrong, I mean I'm concerned about the face NOT turning black lol
As mentioned before I'm aware that the QM and Biota "darwins" are not pure as their faces do not turn fully black.
Petco getting their clowns from ORA is good for my wallet because with the rewards program I can get storms for around $30. This is how I got my original black storm x black frostbite pair. Female (frostbite) was $25, male (storm) was $35. I don't know if you played it, but it reminds me of the shop in that old game "insaniqarium" where every day there's a randomly generated unique fish that you have the chance to buy. Every time I go into Petco it's always a surprise to see what designers they have in for that cycle. They get them as assorted, usually in batches of 3. I've seen a few black storms, a lot of ice storms and ultra phantoms/black frostbites, dominos, etc. However this is not good for their "darwins", as any black ocellaris coming out of ORA at this point are culls from designer spawns, since designers don't exactly breed true. And those, aside from MAYBE zombies, are definitely not pure, as most of the pattern mutations had to be crossed in from orange clowns/backcrossed with black ones.
That aside I'm getting ready to get pure F1 darwins from Robert King in about 2 weeks. I'm definitely excited for those. Once I have the space and time I'll eventually try to breed them myself. Maybe one day I can remake a lot of the patterns we have in designer clowns, but certifiably pure blooded.

 

[Louis Z]

This is the same scenario that happens with freshwater fish . Once the actual fish are collected from a site they are disseminated. Along the way there are collectors that want to keep the strains pure and then there are mass producers that are just trying to produce to produce and are not so dedicated to keeping strains pure . The one good thing about most clowns is their longevity and their ability to produce viable eggs for most of their life . I have seen some YouTube videos of ORA facility . They have a breeder section that they maintain so they can produce from original pairs along with designer clowns . It’s up to them what they want to focus on production . So I bet they have ordinal strain of Darwin’s . As far as how often they bring that to production ? I don’t know

 

[Isosceles]

This is the same scenario that happens with freshwater fish . Once the actual fish are collected from a site they are disseminated. Along the way there are collectors that want to keep the strains pure and then there are mass producers that are just trying to produce to produce and are not so dedicated to keeping strains pure . The one good thing about most clowns is their longevity and their ability to produce viable eggs for most of their life . I have seen some YouTube videos of ORA facility . They have a breeder section that they maintain so they can produce from original pairs along with designer clowns . It’s up to them what they want to focus on production . So I bet they have ordinal strain of Darwin’s . As far as how often they bring that to production ? I don’t know

I'm well familiar, I come from the central american cichlid hobby lol

 

[TommyF]

Here is an interesting read on "Black Darwin" Clownfish

https://miniwaters.fish/shop/saltwa...-darwin-black-clownfish-true-black-ocellaris/

 

[Isosceles]

Here is an interesting read on "Black Darwin" Clownfish

https://miniwaters.fish/shop/saltwa...-darwin-black-clownfish-true-black-ocellaris/

And here is another
https://amphiprionology.wordpress.com/2016/10/26/amphiprion-cf-ocellaris-indonesia/From a few studies I've found, that I've at the moment lost track of, clownfish as a whole are in need of a LOT of taxonomic revision, with there actually being somewhere around 70-80 genetically distinct species. The ocellaris complex in particular however is due for ocellaris itself being split into 3-4 species, and percula into 2-- funny enough the population Nemo comes from (GBR) is currently an undescribed species.

 

[Louis Z]

Good reads . I always wanted wild caught pair but was not experienced enough in parasite management over 20 years ago to commit to purchasing . I remember watching the high priced wild caught pairs on ibluewater . When almost all clownfish were wild caught and prices high and all being a gamble on whether or not they would survive . So if I get mine from petco , it’s enough for me . I never wanted to try my hand and kill them because of ignorance . I couldn’t bear the idea of it dying because I want it . But if truly I ever wanted a pair , it was the rose magenta colored skunk clownfish pair , I assume it wasn’t doctored but I have never seen any other images like that again .