Are these safe to use?

Aquajan

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Hi,

I have bought some addatives from a laboratory addative webshop and I wondered if these are safe to use.

I bought:
Sodium carbonate anhydrous 99,7%
Calcium chloride water free 96%
Magnesium chloride hexahydrate 99%

At the website they did not note what the remaining 0,3, 4 and 1% were but on the label it does.

The heavy metals, and aspecialy a lot of the things in the magnesium chloride is what im concerned about.

Here are pictures or the labels.

IMG_20210803_171349.jpg IMG_20210803_170018.jpg IMG_20210803_165959.jpg
 

MnFish1

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Well - I would probably ask the company you bought them from. I'm not going to do the calculation from anhydrous PPM to dissolved PPM but it seems to me that you are going to be dosing a very small amount of the mixed chemical into your tank compared to the total tank volume. I would tend to use only pharmaceutical grade Alkalinity, Mg, and Ca for my tank. Like BRS sells. Everything will have some contaminants - but there are other uses for those chemicals - that do not require the 'purity' that is required for corals, etc.
 
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Aquajan

Aquajan

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Hi thanks for ur reply,

Ofcourse I would rather have 100% pure products but unfortunately that's not available.
It's a laboratory site so yea it could be used for experimenting although atleast the magnesium part is food grade.
I can't find anything that's pharmaceutical..
Im from the Netherlands so the brs stuf isn't avaliable here.

The addatives like Dow mini pellets and arm hammer baking soda which are used by many people befor probably have some contamients too.
The products sold specifically for reeftank use often do not show if there are contamients in their product but they also do not say it does not have them.
And brs does not have a label with contamients on their products as far I know so I can't really compare.
The last two are ofcourse safe and proven but also much more expensive (atleas here in the Netherlands).

So that's why I ask if the contamients in these products are tolerable or not?
 

MnFish1

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Hi thanks for ur reply,

Ofcourse I would rather have 100% pure products but unfortunately that's not available.
It's a laboratory site so yea it could be used for experimenting although atleast the magnesium part is food grade.
I can't find anything that's pharmaceutical..
Im from the Netherlands so the brs stuf isn't avaliable here.

The addatives like Dow mini pellets and arm hammer baking soda which are used by many people befor probably have some contamients too.
The products sold specifically for reeftank use often do not show if there are contamients in their product but they also do not say it does not have them.
And brs does not have a label with contamients on their products as far I know so I can't really compare.
The last two are ofcourse safe and proven but also much more expensive (atleas here in the Netherlands).

So that's why I ask if the contamients in these products are tolerable or not?
it would depend on numerous things. If you look (I especially looked at the Mg) - it says 'UP TO' xxxx. So - it would depend - how often are you doing water changes or ICP tests, how much you're dosing as compared to the volume of water in your tank, etc etc.

Unless one knows those parameters - its impossible to calculate. I personally, would recommend either 1) contacting the company - to be sure that these chemicals are for use in a 'living system' as compared to another industrial use - where those contaminants do not matter and 2) if you do decide to use them - check frequent ICP tests (which could eat up any savings you might have gotten).

My real recommendation - play it safe - buy reef safe chemicals. until you can document from the company what they think
 
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Aquajan

Aquajan

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Just got an awnser from the company and they said the products all have a food grade certificate and are not specifically meant for industrial or educational purposes.

Is that good enough?
Or is this quality not good enough for a reef tank?
 

MnFish1

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Just got an awnser from the company and they said the products all have a food grade certificate and are not specifically meant for industrial or educational purposes.

Is that good enough?
Or is this quality not good enough for a reef tank?
Are you planning to do a 'triton' type (low water change) system - or are you planning to do water changes?

Again - part of the question relates to how much you're planning to dose, how many water changes you're planning to do and what types of coral, etc you're planning for the tank?

I know @Randy Holmes-Farley often recommends food grade chemicals for additives - perhaps he can help. My guess is that the amount you're dosing will be small relative to the volume of the tank - and it 'should' be fine. I might check a couple ICP tests over time to make sure nothing is building up - if youre not doing water changes
 
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Aquajan

Aquajan

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Well I do 2x 2liter auto water changes a day on a 350 liter system which adds up to about 8% a week.
I use tropic marin pro salt.

I have to daily add about:
12,5 grams calcium chloride
13,2 grams sodium carbonate
3,3 grams magnesium chloride
1,9 grams of magnesium sulfate

Is this considered a small amount?

This is based on a 2 dkh consumption on 350 liter.
My tank consumes 3 dkh daily but 1 dkh is delivered with kalkwasser.
So for this I calculated 1/3 more magnesium relative to the two part.

I do wonder if the tank really uses 3 dkh a day.. seems like alot..

My tank has lps and sps corals including some acropora.

IMG_20210520_185755.jpg
 

MnFish1

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Well I do 2x 2liter auto water changes a day on a 350 liter system which adds up to about 8% a week.
I use tropic marin pro salt.

I have to daily add about:
12,5 grams calcium chloride
13,2 grams sodium carbonate
3,3 grams magnesium chloride
1,9 grams of magnesium sulfate

Is this considered a small amount?

This is based on a 2 dkh consumption on 350 liter.
My tank consumes 3 dkh daily but 1 dkh is delivered with kalkwasser.
So for this I calculated 1/3 more magnesium relative to the two part.

I do wonder if the tank really uses 3 dkh a day.. seems like alot..

My tank has lps and sps corals including some acropora.

IMG_20210520_185755.jpg
Nice Tank. Lets see if Randy weighs in
 
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Aquajan

Aquajan

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Thanks,

It would be nice if Randy can share his opinion :)

I just was thinking about those ppm values and I started wondering...

When I count up all the ppm values of the impurities in the magnesium I get a total of 1113ppm and the calcium is 0,1% so another 100 ppm so a total of 1213ppm.
Is the magnesium part in this case 998787 ppm?
So if I would raise the magnesium by 998787ppm I would add 500ppm potassium?
Besouse that's seems like nothing..
Or does it not work that simple?
 
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Aquajan

Aquajan

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Oh the 0,1% calcium should be 1000ppm instead of 100ppm
So 2113ppm of impurities and 997787ppm magnesium*.
 
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Aquajan

Aquajan

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Hmm do not really know anything about chemistry... the 997787ppm magnesium is of course magnesium chloride hexahydrate..
That's H12Cl2MgO6
So that's:
12x hydrogen 0,09 kg/m3 x 12= 1,08
2x chloride 2,99 kg/m3 x 2= 5,98
1x mg 1,74 kg/m3 x 1= 174
6x oxygen 1,43 kg/m3 x 6= 8,58

If I would add these numbers up and devide the 997787ppm by the outcome x 1,74 mg I get 997787 / 17,38= 57410 x 1,74 = 99893ppm

So I probably did not do the math right for some reason (becouse I xxxx at math) but it seems less than 10% of the magnesium chloride hexahydrate is magnesium..

So adding 998ppm mg would add:
0,01ppm aluminum
0,02 ppm arsenic
0,1 ppm iron
Based on a 3 dkh/day uptake i would need to add 1204 gram a year that would give a total of 413ppm magnesium.

So yearly thats:
413 ppm magnesium
2,5 ppm bromide
0,5ppm sulfates
0,0041 ppm aluminium
0,0081 ppm arsenic
50 ppm calcium
0,05 ppm iron
2,5 ppm potassium

The aluminum, arsenic and iron part seem like alot..
But yea probably the math is not right..
Just wanted to give it a try :)

Probably better to wait for @Randy Holmes-Farley
 

MnFish1

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Thanks,

It would be nice if Randy can share his opinion :)

I just was thinking about those ppm values and I started wondering...

When I count up all the ppm values of the impurities in the magnesium I get a total of 1113ppm and the calcium is 0,1% so another 100 ppm so a total of 1213ppm.
Is the magnesium part in this case 998787 ppm?
So if I would raise the magnesium by 998787ppm I would add 500ppm potassium?
Besouse that's seems like nothing..
Or does it not work that simple?
This was my initial point - it seems like it should be that simple (and my guess is that Randy will agree - they are probably 'ok' to use. I didn't want to go through all of the ppm conversions from solid to aqueous, etc. To me it seems like a small issue. But - many say use only 'pharmaceutical grade' chemicals - as compared to food grade.
 

MnFish1

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Hmm do not really know anything about chemistry... the 997787ppm magnesium is of course magnesium chloride hexahydrate..
That's H12Cl2MgO6
So that's:
12x hydrogen 0,09 kg/m3 x 12= 1,08
2x chloride 2,99 kg/m3 x 2= 5,98
1x mg 1,74 kg/m3 x 1= 174
6x oxygen 1,43 kg/m3 x 6= 8,58

If I would add these numbers up and devide the 997787ppm by the outcome x 1,74 mg I get 997787 / 17,38= 57410 x 1,74 = 99893ppm

So I probably did not do the math right for some reason (becouse I xxxx at math) but it seems less than 10% of the magnesium chloride hexahydrate is magnesium..

So adding 998ppm mg would add:
0,01ppm aluminum
0,02 ppm arsenic
0,1 ppm iron
Based on a 3 dkh/day uptake i would need to add 1204 gram a year that would give a total of 413ppm magnesium.

So yearly thats:
413 ppm magnesium
2,5 ppm bromide
0,5ppm sulfates
0,0041 ppm aluminium
0,0081 ppm arsenic
50 ppm calcium
0,05 ppm iron
2,5 ppm potassium

The aluminum, arsenic and iron part seem like alot..
But yea probably the math is not right..
Just wanted to give it a try :)

Probably better to wait for @Randy Holmes-Farley
PS - I think your calculations are indeed incorrect. Because - you can't use the H and O and Mg and Cl in that way - because really its 'MgCl2' surrounded/bound to 6 waters 'H20'. If you 'google it' you will see that 25.5 % of whats in your 'chemical' is magnesium - by mass.

That is why it seems like we have to add so much Mg solution to bring Mg up to a certain level (as compared to Alkalinity, etc).
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Just got an awnser from the company and they said the products all have a food grade certificate and are not specifically meant for industrial or educational purposes.

Is that good enough?
Or is this quality not good enough for a reef tank?

Yes, food grade is plenty good enough for reef aquaria. :)

The numbers you show are not a concern.
 

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