Bacterial Bloom from increasing average water temperature?

Alexander1312

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
152
Reaction score
110
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Quick question, I increased the water temperature by 1F from 78 to 79 yesterday, and overnight it seems as if this caused a bacterial bloom in a 9 month old tank. Is this a likely cause or should I consider other factors?

70784907623__D0AB4268-DCCC-4023-8F82-DFBDCF3A7A2A.jpeg
 
OP
OP
Alexander1312

Alexander1312

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
152
Reaction score
110
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'd consider other factors. :)

I cannot say it is impossible, but it seems unlikely.
I could not identify any other reason, and the only change from yesterday was the temp change. All other routines are the same for months. PH is still going up though above 8 so hopefully no fallout from this.
 

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
91,854
Reaction score
202,862
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Greater chances would be lack of filtration or maintenance, tank at or near window, lack of maintenance and overfeeding are examples of causes.
 

Dan_P

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
6,675
Reaction score
7,170
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Quick question, I increased the water temperature by 1F from 78 to 79 yesterday, and overnight it seems as if this caused a bacterial bloom in a 9 month old tank. Is this a likely cause or should I consider other factors?

70784907623__D0AB4268-DCCC-4023-8F82-DFBDCF3A7A2A.jpeg
Curious why the temperature was increased 1 F.

What was the data that points to bacteria bloom rather than calcium carbonate precipitate?
 
OP
OP
Alexander1312

Alexander1312

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
152
Reaction score
110
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Curious why the temperature was increased 1 F.

What was the data that points to bacteria bloom rather than calcium carbonate precipitate?
Great questions and alternative problem statement. I did not think of calcium carbonate precipitation.

The temperature change was due to changing a heater controller from an Inkbird to an Aqualogic / Ranco controller and based on the available temperature settings of the new controller, the temperature seems to have slightly increased by up to 1F.

How do I know if it was calcium carbonate precipitation - what can I test to confirm this? It only 'looked' like bacteria bloom, but not sure if it is.
 

Dan_P

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
6,675
Reaction score
7,170
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Great questions and alternative problem statement. I did not think of calcium carbonate precipitation.

The temperature change was due to changing a heater controller from an Inkbird to an Aqualogic / Ranco controller and based on the available temperature settings of the new controller, the temperature seems to have slightly increased by up to 1F.

How do I know if it was calcium carbonate precipitation - what can I test to confirm this? It only 'looked' like bacteria bloom, but not sure if it is.
Did not even think of changing controllers was the reason for the change.

I can’t think of an easy and reliable way to distinguish the two. The problem is that there is so little material involved. @taricha might have a trick up his sleeve.
 
OP
OP
Alexander1312

Alexander1312

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
152
Reaction score
110
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Did not even think of changing controllers was the reason for the change.

I can’t think of an easy and reliable way to distinguish the two. The problem is that there is so little material involved. @taricha might have a trick up his sleeve.
I tested calcium (Hanna), magnesium (salifert), and alkalinity (Hanna), and it does not seem the numbers are odd - which I thought were all related to calcium carbonate precipitation.

Alk - 8.8
Calcium 423
Magnesium - 1325

I would be happy to hear any more thoughts on this topic.
 
OP
OP
Alexander1312

Alexander1312

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
152
Reaction score
110
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Greater chances would be lack of filtration or maintenance, tank at or near window, lack of maintenance and overfeeding are examples of causes.
The tank does have various types of filtration (carbon, GFO, filter floss - last change this Saturday, skimmer, etc.), is away from the window, approx. ten feet away from the window, and I would be sincere if I did not spend enough time on maintenance, but this does truly not apply. I spend a significant amount of time each day, specifically on the weekend (1h per weekday and 2+ hours each Sat and Sunday). And overfeeding, well, this is relative. Still, we feed half cube daily of frozen food San Francisco Bay brand multi-pack for the following fish - two clowns, one blenny, one firefish, one Randall goby, and one court jester goby - overfeeding?

Any other thoughts on what could cause the cloudy water overnight - which disappeared a few hours later - would be greatly appreciated. I cannot find the root cause.
 

bushdoc

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 12, 2022
Messages
1,422
Reaction score
1,808
Location
Fresno
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Bacteria need food to bloom. If it was bacterial bloom it might've been caused by some dead organism, fish, snail etc and relative inability of your live rock to process excess of organic matter. You are mentioning various filtration methods, but saying nothing about live rock. Is your live rock mature enough and do you have enough to adrtess your bio load?
 

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
91,854
Reaction score
202,862
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
The tank does have various types of filtration (carbon, GFO, filter floss - last change this Saturday, skimmer, etc.), is away from the window, approx. ten feet away from the window, and I would be sincere if I did not spend enough time on maintenance, but this does truly not apply. I spend a significant amount of time each day, specifically on the weekend (1h per weekday and 2+ hours each Sat and Sunday). And overfeeding, well, this is relative. Still, we feed half cube daily of frozen food San Francisco Bay brand multi-pack for the following fish - two clowns, one blenny, one firefish, one Randall goby, and one court jester goby - overfeeding?

Any other thoughts on what could cause the cloudy water overnight - which disappeared a few hours later - would be greatly appreciated. I cannot find the root cause.
carbon, GFO, filter floss - would be media and not filtration but used in filtration
Do you have sump or canister or??
As for 10 feet from window- this may be your culprit as UV rays are strongest this time of the year and will cause blooms
Try a sheet of black construction paper from Walmart and place on side facing window and you will see a reduction
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
67,339
Reaction score
63,686
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I could not identify any other reason, and the only change from yesterday was the temp change. All other routines are the same for months. PH is still going up though above 8 so hopefully no fallout from this.

A lot of things happen in reef tanks that we have no ready explanation for. I'd just keep watching and monitoring.
 

Dan_P

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
6,675
Reaction score
7,170
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I tested calcium (Hanna), magnesium (salifert), and alkalinity (Hanna), and it does not seem the numbers are odd - which I thought were all related to calcium carbonate precipitation.

Alk - 8.8
Calcium 423
Magnesium - 1325

I would be happy to hear any more thoughts on this topic.
Results don’t seem unusually high.
 

Dan_P

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
6,675
Reaction score
7,170
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The tank does have various types of filtration (carbon, GFO, filter floss - last change this Saturday, skimmer, etc.), is away from the window, approx. ten feet away from the window, and I would be sincere if I did not spend enough time on maintenance, but this does truly not apply. I spend a significant amount of time each day, specifically on the weekend (1h per weekday and 2+ hours each Sat and Sunday). And overfeeding, well, this is relative. Still, we feed half cube daily of frozen food San Francisco Bay brand multi-pack for the following fish - two clowns, one blenny, one firefish, one Randall goby, and one court jester goby - overfeeding?

Any other thoughts on what could cause the cloudy water overnight - which disappeared a few hours later - would be greatly appreciated. I cannot find the root cause.
I am coming around to bacteria bloom but thinking it is a coincidence. Another thought is that it might be possible to have not noticed periodic blooms in the recent past that were not quite visible. This last one just happened to be more intense, you noticed it, and thought it was a special event.

Odds of explaining why things happen in an aquarium, are low.
 
OP
OP
Alexander1312

Alexander1312

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
152
Reaction score
110
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
A lot of things happen in reef tanks that we have no ready explanation for. I'd just keep watching and monitoring.
Understood. Thank you. It just came suddenly overnight, I could not find any dead animals, and we had also not changed the routine significantly for a few months, except adding more GFO a week ago since phosphate has not been dropping (0.28). I also thought that bacteria like warmer temperatures which was the only ‘real’ change I have made in the past 24 hours, and that it just passed a tipping point to trigger that - maybe just a too simple thought I had.
 

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,545
Reaction score
10,101
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I can’t think of an easy and reliable way to distinguish the two. The problem is that there is so little material involved. @taricha might have a trick up his sleeve.
If you take a couple stacked coffee filters in a funnel and pour ~1Liter of water through them several times, until the filters start to slow a little bit, you might be able to catch enough material. I'm not sure this'll work - but a filter slowing would tell you it is working.
If the material is green - then it's an algae bloom
If the material bubbles when you pour vinegar on it, it's mostly precipitation.
If the material is pale/yellow/tan and doesn't react with vinegar, then I'd bet a bacterial bloom.

alternately, if you fill a glass beaker and it's almost totally settled and clarified in an hour then I'd bet precipitation.


I could not identify any other reason, and the only change from yesterday was the temp change.
Of the reasons I can think of that would trigger a bacterial bloom, almost none of them are things you'd actually be likely to observe before it happened. So lack of observation tells you little.

Precipitation from elevated temp in my system happens on the heater surface - not in the water.

Odds of explaining why things happen in an aquarium, are low.
If only fewer things happened, we might have better odds! :)
 

Dan_P

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
6,675
Reaction score
7,170
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If you take a couple stacked coffee filters in a funnel and pour ~1Liter of water through them several times, until the filters start to slow a little bit, you might be able to catch enough material. I'm not sure this'll work - but a filter slowing would tell you it is working.
If the material is green - then it's an algae bloom
If the material bubbles when you pour vinegar on it, it's mostly precipitation.
If the material is pale/yellow/tan and doesn't react with vinegar, then I'd bet a bacterial bloom.

alternately, if you fill a glass beaker and it's almost totally settled and clarified in an hour then I'd bet precipitation.



Of the reasons I can think of that would trigger a bacterial bloom, almost none of them are things you'd actually be likely to observe before it happened. So lack of observation tells you little.

Precipitation from elevated temp in my system happens on the heater surface - not in the water.


If only fewer things happened, we might have better odds! :)
Thanks, I knew you had some ideas. I like the coffee filter idea. For fun, I might take it up a notch and push all my aquarium water through one (or until it clogs) and see what I collect.
 

Aqua Man

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
1,380
Reaction score
1,844
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Any other thoughts on what could cause the cloudy water overnight - which disappeared a few hours later - would be greatly appreciated. I cannot find the root cause.
Could have been snails releasing sperm/eggs in the water stream. This happened to me the other day actually.

Water volume of 20gl and the 2 Trochus snails really clouded up the water for a few hrs.
 
OP
OP
Alexander1312

Alexander1312

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 10, 2022
Messages
152
Reaction score
110
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Could have been snails releasing sperm/eggs in the water stream. This happened to me the other day actually.

Water volume of 20gl and the 2 Trochus snails really clouded up the water for a few hrs.
I believe now that this is what happened. Thanks so much!
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
67,339
Reaction score
63,686
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I believe now that this is what happened. Thanks so much!

That's a reasonable explanation since organisms sometimes spawn in relation to changes in the environment.
 

Creating a strong bulwark: Did you consider floor support for your reef tank?

  • I put a major focus on floor support.

    Votes: 26 39.4%
  • I put minimal focus on floor support.

    Votes: 16 24.2%
  • I put no focus on floor support.

    Votes: 22 33.3%
  • Other.

    Votes: 2 3.0%
Back
Top