Balling compared to Triton

[HM3105]

Hi everyone,

So I've been wondering, will someone explain the difference between the Triton method and Balling (classic)? It seems to me that perhaps they are similar but that the former uses more testing in determining what the correct dosages is for any given tank.

I've been using B-Ionic for roughly two years and I've been happy with it but I'm kind of curious about these other methods and what the primary reason/benefit for using them are.

Thank you for your time

 

[reefwiser]

Triton method is a whole aquarium method not just about calcium alk mag like 2 part.

2part dosing


Balling method is a 3 part method of dosing cal alk and trace elements.


I use Balling because it is a balanced way of maintaining cal,alk and mag.

 

[o2manyfish]

Balling you test and correct for just 3 level. Triton tests for over 30 elements and has a product line to be able to adjust 19 trace and base elements.

 

[HM3105]

So the basic difference is that Triton more precision in making adjustments to various elements?

 

[o2manyfish]

There are 3 aspects to the Triton Method; 1) The Testing 2) The base elements 3) The Trace elements.

Triton offers the ICP testing in which you send them a water sample and they use ICP techology to test for all the elements present in a water sample. They provide you with 2 pages worth of results that show you your water sample in comparison to natural sea water, the variance, and then some procedures for correcting the elements in error.

The ICP test tests for Heavy Metals, Base elements and Trace elements. Value are measure in parts per million and parts per billion based on the element.

If a tank is having an issue that you don't understand this kind of detailed analysis of what's in your water can help you find bad water sources, bad batches of salt, rusting components, failing RO/DI systems, etc etc

The second part is the Triton Base elements. This is quite similar to your Balling method. You are dosing a 4 part system. The 4 parts consist of Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium+Trace and Trace elements. The 4 part is mixed with the proportional levels of required trace elements for the 'average' aquarium. You adjust your dosing of the 4 part, just as you would with Balling, by testing for Calc, Alk, and Mg and then adjusting the dosing levels. The goal is to eventually be able to dose all 4 elements in very similar quantities.

But every tank is different, and every tank has different living specimens of different sizes. So the consumption of trace elements is going to be different for each tank, and there fore average dosing does not give you the proper balance for a given tank. So once you have done the first round of Triton ICP testing, and followed the instructions to balance all your levels, then 30 days later you do a second Triton ICP test.

This second test will show you what your particular aquarium, with your coral collection, consumes in a given time frame. Now with the results you can dose individual trace elements in the particular volume needed to maintain natural seawater levels,

Once you have this value, now you just set up your dosing schedule, and let your tank flourish. Now somewhere down the road either your corals have greatly increased in size, or you decide you want to collect something different (so you buy a bunch of chalices) and the collection of livestock in either type or quantity changes, you do another Triton ICP test and adjust your trace element dosing accordingly.

I've been using the Triton testing for over a year, and the Triton dosing for the past 4 months. With 11oo gallons of volume and a population of over 300 corals I only have to dose 3 trace elements in addition to the base elements.

I had a successful aquarium before starting Triton. I wasn't trying to solve any issues. I had pretty corals with good color. By adhering to the Triton Method I have seen a significant increase in growth of some of my corals. I have had corals for a couple of years with a consistent growth rate, and with the Triton elements being added growth rates have gone up drastically.

Dave B

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, that video on the Balling method is quite misleading and self serving.

A good quality two part, such as B-ionic, accomplishes what they accomplish with their sodium chloride free salt mix by putting appropriate ions into the two part itself.

I'd be surprised if you see any important difference between B-ionic and the Tropic Marin Balling product.

A DIY two part, if done properly using the magnesium part as directed (not as folks think they "need"), also won't suffer these issues for any of the major ions, but might slowly cause lowering of some minor or trace elements, depending on what is there as an impurity.

 

[Lou Ekus]

I usually contact members directly to clear up misunderstandings on R2R, but I am making an exception here to make sure these comments can be seen by everyone on this thread.

While I have much respect for Randy and his work in getting members of the reef community up to speed on many of the most important reef chemistry principles (thanks as always Randy), I feel compelled to comment on this particularly biased post.

First, while it is true that a “good quality two part” additive seeks to accomplish what the true Balling Method accomplishes by adding complete sodium chloride free salt, “appropriate ions” include ALL 70 trace elements, not a select few. This is NOT accomplished fully by augmented two part additives, and using them does result in an eventual decrease of certain important traces.

Secondly, I’m pretty sure that what Randy is referring to as “self serving” is the mention of Hans-Werner Balling now leading the Tropic Marin product development team. It is important for R2R’rs to understand that there are MANY products being pushed in the reef market with the name “Balling” on them and that NONE of them are either endorsed by or are the exact formula of Hans-Werner Balling except the ones made by Tropic Marin. This is true because after Han-Werner published his original work on this in Datz magazine in ’94 and then revised it in ’96, he was hired by Tropic Marin in 2001 to join the team in that position. Aquarists looking for HIS exact formula need to know where they can get it!

I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding about the Balling video. If anyone has any further questions about the true Balling Method, I am always available to chat in the office.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I add the trace elements to my brs 2 part I have been doing that for almost 3yrs was thinking about getting a triton test but did not pull the trigger yet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

First, while it is true that a “good quality two part” additive seeks to accomplish what the true Balling Method accomplishes by adding complete sodium chloride free salt, “appropriate ions” include ALL 70 trace elements, not a select few. This is NOT accomplished fully by augmented two part additives, and using them does result in an eventual decrease of certain important traces.
.

Thanks for posting, Lou, and thanks for the kind comments.

As to this specific comment, I've not seen an analysis of either your product or ESV's to know for sure what is in either one, but they make claims that support exactly what I said:

http://www.esvco.com/products.html

" In addition to supplying highly concentrated calcium and carbonate alkalinity required for calcification, B-Ionic Calcium Buffer System is also formulated to provide all other important major, minor, and trace elements in the proper ratios to duplicate the composition of synthetic seawater."

Did I misunderstand what you are saying, or do you believe they are misleading folks with that claim?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Secondly, I’m pretty sure that what Randy is referring to as “self serving” is the mention of Hans-Werner Balling now leading the Tropic Marin product development team. It is important for R2R’rs to understand that there are MANY products being pushed in the reef market with the name “Balling” on them and that NONE of them are either endorsed by or are the exact formula of Hans-Werner Balling except the ones made by Tropic Marin. This is true because after Han-Werner published his original work on this in Datz magazine in ’94 and then revised it in ’96, he was hired by Tropic Marin in 2001 to join the team in that position. Aquarists looking for HIS exact formula need to know where they can get it!
.

The self serving part is to show only sodium and chloride in the video, while it is very clear that two part systems (even my crude DIY) has a lot more than that. A good quality two part will claim to have all of the other important ions present, so to show only sodium and chloride as the residue and make statements about how that is bad is, IMO, somewhat misleading. It gives a false impression about how bad your competition is at maintaining ionic balance.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As best I can tell, a good quality two part can accomplish exactly what the salt free salt mix provides by putting those same ions into the two or three parts themselves.

Do you believe that to not be true?

 

[Lou Ekus]

Randy, I do belive that the Balling Method still has a small advantage over two part methods as I have never seen a two part that includes ALL of the 70 trace elements necessary to completely ionically balance the additional NaCl produced by the first two parts. I will certainly admit that some additional trace elements are better than none being added. But I see some ionic imbalance being created if they are not ALL oncluded. That being said, the video is worded and the example shown the way it is in order to make the point very clear for people, especially those who are not chemists or have a good solid background in chemistry, to be able to understand. Sometimes the explanation of a concept like this needs to be shown in the extreme so all can understand and "get it". The example is shown the way it is for "clarity" not to be self serving!

 

[brandon429]

What is the specific benefit of reefer X converting into one of these systems, is it less water changes needed? im sure coral coloration is a good benefit, but are work loads reduced for the typical tank keeper along with better growth, whats the claim benefit?

 

[Lou Ekus]

What is the specific benefit of reefer X converting into one of these systems, is it less water changes needed? im sure coral coloration is a good benefit, but are work loads reduced for the typical tank keeper along with better growth, whats the claim benefit?

Brandon, I don't believe that the Balling Method facilitates less water changes. In my opinion, water changes are really for exporting contaminants anyway, and not really for replenishing much. That is, of course, unless you have a nano aquarium and are changing 70-90% of the water on a regular basis. The attraction of the Balling method is in the ability to regulate the different parameters and the results in the growth and color of the inverts. Unfortunately, we havn't found that silver bullet that gets rid of the work yet! :)

 

[Pepcrylic]

Following this one. I like the concept of not doing lots and lots of water changes

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

. Sometimes the explanation of a concept like this needs to be shown in the extreme so all can understand and "get it". The example is shown the way it is for "clarity" not to be self serving!

I'm not sure how portraying something more extreme and undesirable than it really is provides clarity.

 

[Lou Ekus]

I'm not sure how portraying something more extreme and undesirable than it really is provides clarity.

What I meant is that I show the two part method without ANY trace elements (as many of them are) instead of showing the two part with "some" trace elements. It makes the explanation a little easier to understand. Then the hobbyist can make the comparison to a two part with "some but not all" of the traces like the true Balling Method. To me that aids in "clarifying" the explanation. Does that explain what I meant by the statement more effectively?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What I meant is that I show the two part method without ANY trace elements (as many of them are) instead of showing the two part with "some" trace elements. It makes the explanation a little easier to understand. Then the hobbyist can make the comparison to a two part with "some but not all" of the traces like the true Balling Method. To me that aids in "clarifying" the explanation. Does that explain what I meant by the statement more effectively?

IMO, without seeing a detailed chemical analysis of all of the parts of the Balling method and all of the parts of any given two part that it is being compared to, I don't see how one can make a conclusion about which is better at maintaining an appropriate level of trace elements. :)

 

[reefwiser]

Sounds like a good task for you Randy.:) I see an article. But Two Part should just be calcium chloride and baking soda and should be pure as possible. Don't see how trace elements would be in a "good" two part Recipe.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/
So where would one get trace elements in a pure two part system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds like a good task for you Randy.:) I see an article. But Two Part should just be calcium chloride and baking soda and should be pure as possible. Don't see how trace elements would be in a "good" two part Recipe.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/
So where would one get trace elements in a pure two part system.

Well, in a two part like B-ionic, the balancing elements are added into one of the two or three parts used.

In the calcium part, you have:

chloride
calcium
magnesium
strontium
iron
chromium
copper
and basically anything that is not soluble at high pH or high carbonate or high sulfate

In the alkalinity part you have:

sodium
sulfate
carbonate
possibly bicarbonate
vanadate
and basically anything that is not soluble in high calcium and magnesium solutions

then in either part (depending on how you design it) you have

potassium
bromide
fluoride
borate
iodide
iodate
and anything else that is soluble in either part

That is the sort of thing that B-ionic would do to produce a product satisfying this claim of theirs:

" In addition to supplying highly concentrated calcium and carbonate alkalinity required for calcification, B-Ionic Calcium Buffer System is also formulated to provide all other important major, minor, and trace elements in the proper ratios to duplicate the composition of synthetic seawater. As a result, B-Ionic Calcium Buffer System will help restore inorganic ions lost from protein skimming and help maintain the ionic balance of your aquarium water. "

http://www.esvco.com/products.html