Bare bottom dry rock cycle

[thatone08]

A little background on everything going on.

30 gallon display with sump.
Bare bottom.
20 lbs Marco dry rock.
Maxspect plates and balls.

‘rinsed’ dipped Marco, and maxspect media in rodi before putting in tank sump.

Added dr Tim’s, added ammonia.

Week later added some turbostart. As a secondary seeding.

After about. A week it has gone cloudy and brown. When the water li e is in the display seem to have bacterial Ali e build up. Which I have been cleaning up with a glass scraper.

Added filter sock and a bag of carbon. Filter sock starts to clog water still cloudy and brown.

10 gallon water change about 25% total volume. Clears up a bit but continues to stay brown and cloudy.

2 weeks later another 10 gallon water change. Same as before s clears a little conti eyes to get cloudy.

Today I setup a skimmer and have started to break it in. Hoping it will help to start clearing this up.

I have 25 gallons of salt ready to go for a water change which I plan on doing tomorrow. Hopi g this will clear up the water significantly. Will have skimmer continue to run, and have filter stock in as well.

cloudiness I understand is part of the cycle but this seems a bit much and darker than what I would consider normal.this is my first time cycling barebottom, and with sand I have never experienced this.

Is this from the rock not being rinsed in Ro enough, is it a bacterial bloom, do I wait it out or just do large water changes until it clears up?

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

if you can post your ommonia nitrite and nitrate levels currentlh since your cycling this will help others respond. Also what is the amount of ammonia you dosed?

 

[thatone08]

Ammonia reads 0 with salifert.
Nitrite is hard to read on the salifert with no real good directions. Looking from side it looks the darkest purple, and from the top and I’ve the colored squares half way. Everything else looks darker.
Nitrate high range Hanna checker. Last I checked was about 50.

I dosed fritz fishless cycle ammonia to 2 ppm per the instructions.

The nitrate doesn’t make sense to me. If I dosed 2 ppm the most I should have nitrate wise is about 8 rounding up.

Not sure if the cloudiness is causing such a high reading or I still have nitrite that’s causing such a high nitrate reading I can post up to date parameters tomorrow. And pictures.

 

[thatone08]

if you can post your ommonia nitrite and nitrate levels currentlh since your cycling this will help others respond. Also what is the amount of ammonia you dosed?

Sorry I replied but not the correct way to your questions.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

It appears your still cycling as your able to still see nitrite either way you look and have nitrate and 0 ammonia. What are yoi doing to top off evaporation in tank? Since you have rodi water I assume thats what you use to top off as well? Others will probably chime in as ill be asleep shortly lol.

 

[thatone08]

It appears your still cycling as your able to still see nitrite either way you look and have nitrate and 0 ammonia. What are yoi doing to top off evaporation in tank? Since you have rodi water I assume thats what you use to top off as well? Others will probably chime in as ill be asleep shortly lol.

Yes top off with rodi.

The salifert test doesn’t seem the be as cut and dry as the Red Sea kit. Red Sea clear is 0. Were this salifert kit. Even on a tank I’ve had up for 9 months shows the same purple. Coloration regardless.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

Sorry I replied but not the correct way to your questions.

It was fine for me for now others may want more info. It looks like bacterial bloom. This is normal in some cycling. I use bacteria and usually dont have any cycling. But i also use live rock at times with it or have pieces. Everytank and setup is different.

 

[jda]

It could be as easy as the Marco had organics on it that are decaying or floating off and without sand or skimmer, they are not getting exported so the water is staying cloud. My guess is that the skimmer will help.

Most nitrate test kits will not be accurate if there is significant nitrite in the tank. Don't worry about nitrate for a while.

 

[brandon429]

this is where you stand
keeping that cloudy filth doesn't help you

the rocks are full of the bacteria added, fritz alone is tested out to a few days max total coverage (evidenced in Dr. Reefs thread where after two days only, he changes 100% of water, redoses ammonia and it goes away overnite...hallmark of a cycled tank)

you are days and days past that point. change out all this filthy water for new, begin, no more cycle testing is needed and the cycle cannot be starved as long as water is in the tank. cycle= done. your tank doesn't have to dose more ammonia, or move 2 ppm down to zero, none of it...you are using bacteria that have already been time-tested for implantation dates and this tank is well fed (evidently per pics) and well passed the known deposition date. we could have cycled this without any test readings whatsoever going off those pics, what you added, and the # of days lead up.

you can't make the cycle better by waiting longer, that's expensive bac you used for a reason, it's dense and active. you are past cycling and into choice of what type of fish disease protocol to apply. skip it, and any thread in the disease forum will show what happens in the tank within half a year.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

this is where you stand
keeping that cloudy filth doesn't help you

the rocks are full of the bacteria added, fritz alone is tested out to a few days max total coverage (evidenced in Dr. Reefs thread where after two days only, he changes 100% of water, redoses ammonia and it goes away overnite...hallmark of a cycled tank)

you are days and days past that point. change out all this filthy water for new, begin, no more cycle testing is needed and the cycle cannot be starved as long as water is in the tank. cycle= done. your tank doesn't have to dose more ammonia, or move 2 ppm down to zero, none of it...you are using bacteria that have already been time-tested for implantation dates and this tank is well fed (evidently per pics) and well passed the known deposition date. we could have cycled this without any test readings whatsoever going off those pics, what you added, and the # of days lead up.

you can't make the cycle better by waiting longer, that's expensive bac you used for a reason, it's dense and active. you are past cycling and into choice of what type of fish disease protocol to apply. skip it, and any thread in the disease forum will show what happens in the tank within half a year.

Just FYI per his prior post "Nitrite is hard to read on the salifert with no real good directions. Looking from side it looks the darkest purple, and from the top and I’ve the colored squares half way. Everything else looks darker."

As you stated he could do a 100 percent water change and should be good if no more nitrite appears after since rocks as you stated should be seeded and where the bacteria lives. I do this with my pico reefs when they are running every week changing 100 percent.

 

[brandon429]

we don't factor nitrite anymore in reef tank cycling, not to any degree, don't even own the kit it'll cause only doubt and confusion. we don't care if it's positive or negative, it's not any more impactful than degrees of helium gas in the water sample etc

what matters in reef tank cycling is ammonia control. we don't even need kits to discern when that's set too, it's inherent based on the number of days a tank has been set up + factoring how it was arranged (certain bacteria are already tested in other threads for known completion dates)

*cycling science is progressing at lightspeed here on rtr see the chem forum as to why. in other sites, nitrite matters bigtime. I hear those sites are also managed by folks whose cars have no floors, and they extend their legs down and run forward through the missing floorboard in order to propel the vehicle down a rock pathway

two places nitrite factors bigtime in cycling: in freshwater tanks, and in low salinity quarantine tanks. this reef display though/has no use for nitrite info. doesn't matter if it's positive or negative to any degree a reef tank will ever see. = new cycling science.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Starting up a tank with dry rock and bare bottom is the hardest way to cycle a tank, imo. The bacterial blooms you are seeing may continue for up to a year. Here is a BRS video that may help. Good Luck!

 

[brandon429]

my flintstones joke was only to imply that other sites may not espouse updated cycling science, nor cars with floorboards in them.

the mechanism that causes the blooms here has to do with lighting in some cases, and in nearly all cases by adding simply too much feed/ammonia/carbon during the bacterial feeding phase. that clouding above was a nice mix of turbid feed, the time has elapsed, the specific thing to do is a 100% water change, every last drop for new untainted water, read the disease forum for a disease protocol, select and implement it, and the rocks will carry fish no problem. they're cycled.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

my flintstones joke was only to imply that other sites may not espouse updated cycling science, nor cars with floorboards in them.

the mechanism that causes the blooms here has to do with lighting in some cases, and in nearly all cases by adding simply too much feed/ammonia/carbon during the bacterial feeding phase. that clouding above was a nice mix of turbid feed, the time has elapsed, the specific thing to do is a 100% water change, every last drop for new untainted water, read the disease forum for a disease protocol, select and implement it, and the rocks will carry fish no problem. they're cycled.

Just spent the past 40 minutes roughly researching several sites and articles. What I found very interesting is hanna, even states under 150 ppb. Where api and such are ppm which is no where close. Research seems limited on specicies but does point that most our nitrite is insignificant in our tanks. Also why never really had to cycle my tanks. Kind of when I did 100 percent 100 changes years ago and some people were shocked. Great piece of info and way it was presented. There is always more info out there lol.

 

[thatone08]

this is where you stand
keeping that cloudy filth doesn't help you

the rocks are full of the bacteria added, fritz alone is tested out to a few days max total coverage (evidenced in Dr. Reefs thread where after two days only, he changes 100% of water, redoses ammonia and it goes away overnite...hallmark of a cycled tank)

you are days and days past that point. change out all this filthy water for new, begin, no more cycle testing is needed and the cycle cannot be starved as long as water is in the tank. cycle= done. your tank doesn't have to dose more ammonia, or move 2 ppm down to zero, none of it...you are using bacteria that have already been time-tested for implantation dates and this tank is well fed (evidently per pics) and well passed the known deposition date. we could have cycled this without any test readings whatsoever going off those pics, what you added, and the # of days lead up.

you can't make the cycle better by waiting longer, that's expensive bac you used for a reason, it's dense and active. you are past cycling and into choice of what type of fish disease protocol to apply. skip it, and any thread in the disease forum will show what happens in the tank within half a year.

Thanks.

I buy my fish quarantined from a friend I trust. Who has way more experience and room to do it lol.

I did the largest water change I could do. 25 gallons. Here is where it stands now. I have the newly purchased skimmer going and filter socks in the washer. Hoping with the filtration what cloudiness I have here will clear up. Or I’ll be doing a 100% water change soon.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

Thanks.

I buy my fish quarantined from a friend I trust. Who has way more experience and room to do it lol.

I did the largest water change I could do. 25 gallons. Here is where it stands now. I have the newly purchased skimmer going and filter socks in the washer. Hoping with the filtration what cloudiness I have here will clear up. Or I’ll be doing a 100% water change soon.

Just do what you can. Itll settle and you can keep doing large water changes until it clears or even after as needed.

 

[brandon429]

If I could choose any filter media to clear that it would be activated carbon

 

[thatone08]

If I could choose any filter media to clear that it would be activated carbon

I have one tiny bag of carbon I could put in. I don’t usually run carbon, do you have any suggestions on a good brand for bag placement in sump?

 

[brandon429]

If that was my tank it would be a full water change. There is no time in reefing where cloudy water fulln of waste should be left in a tank or driven to be that cloudy at the start

f that's not possible I'd run to a pet store and buy a huge hang on back filter. Then I'd by a large mesh netting from the pet store and enough granular carbon to fill it fat

I'd rinse the carbon in the mesh for an hour over and over using tap water until it ran perfectly clear, with a final rinse in saltwater. Then id install it all and in two days it would be clear.