Basement sump and DC return pump options.

[saltgeek1]

Hi R2R,

I would like to get feedback from everyone in regards to a return pump replacement option for my current Reeflo hammerhead pump. I love this workhorse, but I can't help noticing that the power requirement on this pump is quite large when compared to DC options. The other reason for switching is controllability, I have a GHL profilux4 with 10v control ports.

Let me give you some info about the configuration, the total head height is about 16ft and the display tank is 250gallon and there is also a refugium being fed from this pump. I have tried an Ecotech Vectra m1 but that just didn't give me the turnover I was looking for throughout the system. Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[MGarrison]

I am running a basement sump with ~16 ft of head plus inline 80watt Pentair UV and will splice off for a manifold to run GFO and Carbon reactors. I researched a lot of pumps. When I was first in the hobby 15 years ago Reeflo were the go to pumps for basement sump configurations. The current reviews on these pumps didn't look good to me, with a lot of people experiencing seal failures. Ultimately, I select the Abyzz a400, its an expensive pump but the pump runs amazingly and so quiet. My 120 was running a Panworld 100px-x, my wife commented on how quiet the new setup was compared to the old one.

 

[JGT]

Hi R2R,

I would like to get feedback from everyone in regards to a return pump replacement option for my current Reeflo hammerhead pump. I love this workhorse, but I can't help noticing that the power requirement on this pump is quite large when compared to DC options. The other reason for switching is controllability, I have a GHL profilux4 with 10v control ports.

Let me give you some info about the configuration, the total head height is about 16ft and the display tank is 250gallon and there is also a refugium being fed from this pump. I have tried an Ecotech Vectra m1 but that just didn't give me the turnover I was looking for throughout the system. Thanks in advance everyone.

Sicce SDC 9.0. 1000-2500gph, 23’ max head max 95 watts.

 

[ca1ore]

How much net flow are you looking for? How important is controllability to you in a return pump (mostly rhetorical)?

The problem with almost all of the DC pumps is they don't handle back pressure well. I experimented with a few on my basement sump and all were fails. RedDragon Speedy pumps may suffice, and the Abyzz certainly will. Trouble with the latter is that it is 'stupid' expensive. Do the math based on where you live. When I did, the payback on electricity savings was 25 years ...... probably won't last that long LOL.

The largest Sicce might work, or even the largest Fluval Seas .... depends on your answer to the first question.

Probably you are left with Panworld, Iwaki, Dolphin or Reeflo. Panworld line appears discontinued. Unless you have bat caliber hearing, a bit of pump noise in a basement sump room isn't a big deal. Electricity consumption is just math.

 

[rgulrich]

I've been running a Jebao DCP-18000 for two years now with one soak and clean session. Inexpensive enough to buy a spare to swap out for the cleaning sessions.
This is a submersible pump, not external. So, when i removed my Hammerhead Gold I had to replumb my 150 gallon Rubbermaid sump a bit, but that was no problem.
Basement sump, first floor 300 gallon reef - a room over from the sump location, so about 20-25 feet of 2" flex pvc for the main plumbing.
I replaced my Hammerhead as i was on my third set of seals.
The Jebao is running at 100%, but I bleed off quite a bit with a gate valve and a T back to the sump to regulate the flow rate.
Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers,
Ray

 

[saltgeek1]

Thanks, ca1ore, yeah that seems to be the problem with the options I have run across, for what I am looking for in regards to turnover about four times (at the minimum) the list gets pretty short quickly, without taking out a loan for an Abyzz .

I guess for now it is just a waiting game as to your second point the payback on electricity would be a while.

How much net flow are you looking for? How important is controllability to you in a return pump (mostly rhetorical)?

The problem with almost all of the DC pumps is they don't handle back pressure well. I experimented with a few on my basement sump and all were fails. RedDragon Speedy pumps may suffice, and the Abyzz certainly will. Trouble with the latter is that it is 'stupid' expensive. Do the math based on where you live. When I did, the payback on electricity savings was 25 years ...... probably won't last that long LOL.

The largest Sicce might work, or even the largest Fluval Seas .... depends on your answer to the first question.

Probably you are left with Panworld, Iwaki, Dolphin or Reeflo. Panworld line appears discontinued. Unless you have bat caliber hearing, a bit of pump noise in a basement sump room isn't a big deal. Electricity consumption is just math.

 

[saltgeek1]

Hey rgulrich, it looks like the DCP-18000 has fittings for external use. Did your pump not come with
these attachments?

I've been running a Jebao DCP-18000 for two years now with one soak and clean session. Inexpensive enough to buy a spare to swap out for the cleaning sessions.
This is a submersible pump, not external. So, when i removed my Hammerhead Gold I had to replumb my 150 gallon Rubbermaid sump a bit, but that was no problem.
Basement sump, first floor 300 gallon reef - a room over from the sump location, so about 20-25 feet of 2" flex pvc for the main plumbing.
I replaced my Hammerhead as i was on my third set of seals.
The Jebao is running at 100%, but I bleed off quite a bit with a gate valve and a T back to the sump to regulate the flow rate.
Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers,
Ray

 

[rgulrich]

It came with fittings, but i believe it's designed for internal use.

 

[shred5]

How much net flow are you looking for? How important is controllability to you in a return pump (mostly rhetorical)?

The problem with almost all of the DC pumps is they don't handle back pressure well. I experimented with a few on my basement sump and all were fails. RedDragon Speedy pumps may suffice, and the Abyzz certainly will. Trouble with the latter is that it is 'stupid' expensive. Do the math based on where you live. When I did, the payback on electricity savings was 25 years ...... probably won't last that long LOL.

The largest Sicce might work, or even the largest Fluval Seas .... depends on your answer to the first question.

Probably you are left with Panworld, Iwaki, Dolphin or Reeflo. Panworld line appears discontinued. Unless you have bat caliber hearing, a bit of pump noise in a basement sump room isn't a big deal. Electricity consumption is just math.

I agree 100 percent with what ca1ore is saying.

 

[User]

It came with fittings, but i believe it's designed for internal use.

It can be used external. Just use plumbers thread sealant and not tape.

 

[User]

I've been running a Jebao DCP-18000 for two years now with one soak and clean session. Inexpensive enough to buy a spare to swap out for the cleaning sessions.
This is a submersible pump, not external. So, when i removed my Hammerhead Gold I had to replumb my 150 gallon Rubbermaid sump a bit, but that was no problem.
Basement sump, first floor 300 gallon reef - a room over from the sump location, so about 20-25 feet of 2" flex pvc for the main plumbing.
I replaced my Hammerhead as i was on my third set of seals.
The Jebao is running at 100%, but I bleed off quite a bit with a gate valve and a T back to the sump to regulate the flow rate.
Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers,
Ray

I second this

same pump running two years. Runs at 71% to throw 900gph up a floor and 20 feet lateral for 36 feet head pressure

that gives me 5x sump turnover. I have two xf250 gyres for actual in tank flow

I prefer a separate pump for fuges or reactors, just easier for Me. But I have capacity to spare.

 

[ksed]

You could run 2 Jebao’s 18000 for even more flow and if one breaks down you are still covered.

 

[User]

You could run 2 Jebao’s 18000 for even more flow and if one breaks down you are still covered.

Why though?

You only really want 4-5 x tank volume per hour going through the sump. Additional flow in display via wave makers.

pushing 2500 gph through a sump is crazy, unless you have a huge volume skimmer that can keep up with that flow. Otherwise-Water is circulating but bypassing the skimmer, so not being scrubbed or oxygenated.

I’d rather keep my backup pump in its box not getting wear and tear that could turn into a failure a week after I made it the primary.

 

[jda]

Abyzz is the only DC that can handle this.

Fluval or Laguna are AC, but lower wattage and the larger ones can handle some head.

PanWorld/BlueLine, Iwaki are the go-to for these type of situations - less wattage than a hammerhead, which is not really a good tool for a multi-floor return pump even though they do work only at an excess of wattage.

PanWorld 150/BlueLine 55 is where I would start - not super high wattage and can handle some head pressure. These are not being imported right now, but you can still find them if you look. They are still being made in Japan, but don't expect to see many more until the tariffs are lifted.

I don't consider Jebao or the other Chinese knockoff brands since they steal US and EU patents and Intellectual Property and cause major damage to innovators and companies who otherwise drive the hobby forward. These are not to be confused with pumps that are made in China for companies that abide by fair-trade and copyright policies. I almost lot a company to Chinese IP theft and have a few friends who had to lay off dozens of US workers because of this - if this has not hit home for some of you, I hope that it never does, but nobody is immune from it as long as people either don't know, or don't care as long as they get cheap stuff.

 

[Snoopy 67]

I've seen a video of a Deepwater Aquatics dc pump running through a 35' vertical pipe.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Abyzz (while certainly not cheap) will no dissapoint.

 

[shred5]

I don't consider Jebao or the other Chinese knockoff brands since they steal US and EU patents and Intellectual Property and cause major damage to innovators and companies who otherwise drive the hobby forward. These are not to be confused with pumps that are made in China for companies that abide by fair-trade and copyright policies. I almost lot a company to Chinese IP theft and have a few friends who had to lay off dozens of US workers because of this - if this has not hit home for some of you, I hope that it never does, but nobody is immune from it as long as people either don't know, or don't care as long as they get cheap stuff.

This is such a bad thing but true.
In another hobby I am in a guy designed a flyback transformer and sent it to China for manufacturing. Paid for all the set up and tooling. Then they went one for you and one for me. These transformers showed up for sale in the hobby by other individuals and Ebay for allot less than he could sell them because of the time spent engineering and the other stuff mentioned. Well guess what he had about 4 others in the works and said forget that.

 

[jda]

Nearly any pump will go well beyond it's head limits if you neck down the pipe size smaller than the output of the pump. Flow is severely reduced and the back pressure needs to be nearly nothing.

I once got a Mag 12 to pump up 40 feet with 1/2 OD hard tubing at a club meeting when nearly all said that it would not work. However, if you just put a left or a piece of paper over the outlet (hyperbole, but not by much), it would shut down completely.

Be careful of people showing you any kind of performance outside of an actual use setting. I would stick more to the rated head pressure and then also take some of them with a grain of salt.

 

[User]

“Abyzz is the only pump that will do this”

not true- since a number of people use jebaos for basement sumps for years with few issues, plus they are less expensive.

However- do understand and actually support your view regarding patent theft.

not sure how to combat it effectively on a personal level, since it’s everywhere and alternatives either exclude people from the hobby due to cost, or you end up in pointless arguments in forums etc.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I don't consider Jebao or the other Chinese knockoff brands since they steal US and EU patents and Intellectual Property and cause major damage to innovators and companies who otherwise drive the hobby forward. These are not to be confused with pumps that are made in China for companies that abide by fair-trade and copyright policies. I almost lot a company to Chinese IP theft and have a few friends who had to lay off dozens of US workers because of this - if this has not hit home for some of you, I hope that it never does, but nobody is immune from it as long as people either don't know, or don't care as long as they get cheap stuff.

Besides the poor reliability I've experienced with Jebao powerheads, this is another reason why I said I'll never buy another Jebao.