Basic refugium thoughts?

[Harleys and tanks]

Hey there,

So I live in Canada and with cold winters the c02 in the basement apt can climb pretty quickly as it is very difficult to open the windows for very long at a time. So I am thinking about building a basic refugium mainly just to get some macro algae growing and help balance not only O2 in the water but also PH!

Heres what I am thinking... I have a 40B with a canister filter and have an old 10 gal that I used for an axolotl as a juvi. I am thinking to place the 10 gal at a height above the 40 and run my canister inlet from the 40 and outlet into the 10 gal which would then run through my refugium and out via an overflow type of drain down to the 40 and just run it into the tank as the canister tubing would have. I figure as long as I set my original water levels correctly and have the drain at a certain height then if the canisters power goes out, all I will get is the tanks upper level maxed out. I think as long as I run the ATO into the main tank then I shouldn't have an issue. I don't have an ATO at the moment so realistically I could just watch the levels and see where it is lacking and do it that way... But I think running it into the display would be proper.

My PH (unless I do a very large water change) gets down to 7.7 or less because I can't get enough oxygen exchange through it no mater how turbulent the surface is or we open window for a short period etc.

Any thoughts on my best way to approach this would be helpful... I do not want a HOB overflow and I feel drilling the tank and buying all the items to make a sump style refugium on a currently running tank sounds like a lot more work and expensive to not even know if the cheato will be enough.

Thanks!

 

[mcarroll]

the c02 in the basement apt can climb pretty quickly

How high?

So I am thinking about building a basic refugium mainly just to get some macro algae growing and help balance not only O2 in the water but also PH!

Unless you plan to run the lights 24/7, algae respire at night just like the rest of the animals, so the net effect on CO2 is practically nil, or possibly a slight increase.

Any thoughts on my best way to approach this would be helpful...

I would assess your situation more completely to see if you really have an issue worth addressing.

Keep in mind that if the air in the house is good, that corals are far more adaptable than most folks seem willing to give them credit for – probably more adaptable than we are. If the rest of the system is in great shape, the pH of the water is not critical.

If you find that the house air is so bad you really do need to do something about it, it will make sense to address the issue for your own health. The tank's pH level will change coincidentally.

I would either do Randy's test or get a cheap CO2 monitor off Amazon (or both) to better assess your situation.

From a post by RHF in another thread:

pH And The Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/


The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

 

[Harleys and tanks]

How high?


Unless you plan to run the lights 24/7, algae respire at night just like the rest of the animals, so the net effect on CO2 is practically nil, or possibly a slight increase.


I would assess your situation more completely to see if you really have an issue worth addressing.

Keep in mind that if the air in the house is good, that corals are far more adaptable than most folks seem willing to give them credit for – probably more adaptable than we are. If the rest of the system is in great shape, the pH of the water is not critical.

If you find that the house air is so bad you really do need to do something about it, it will make sense to address the issue for your own health. The tank's pH level will change coincidentally.

I would either do Randy's test or get a cheap CO2 monitor off Amazon (or both) to better assess your situation.

From a post by RHF in another thread:

Haven't tested c02 levels directly but with 3 ppl in the amount of space and windows and doors closed, PH basically unreadable or totally unreadable in the evening (6pm) I am assuming high enough that 02 level in the tank is not high enough. I have plenty of surface agitation and recently ran my air pump for axolotl tank to a small window near tanks and cracked the window open stuffing pillows on the edge to stop the cold and ran those air stones to both tanks... axolotl tank always had airstones running but the one in the Reef tank is new. It basically just sits halfway down in the tank along a corner, I am hoping that either the popped bubbles at surface then create some 02 at the surface to absorb, it absorbs into water column and sometimes I run it right into powerhead so it spreads micro bubbles throughout.

My only other option would be to do a refugium (if ppl think it would get enough change in c02 & 02 levels along with nutrient export a little), add some sort of protein skimmer but there is no sump so it would be HOB or something and run the air line to that... but really how much will a little protein skimmer add 02 to the tank? or I do a significant water change every other water change or something and hope that it adds more PH and swaps c02 out and 02 in. I did do a large water change not long ago (about 17 gal into 40B with sand and approx 35lbs of rock) and after that I finally had PH levels of 8.2ish vs not readable.

I do agree that I should have windows open and more air exchange for our own health... but with a girlfriend and 7 yr old girl in the house... that's a losing battle vs them being cold. I might be able to open it here or there through out the week and run a couple heaters but it still drops fast in there and I don't know how much I am really helping that way because PH still wasn't coming up.

I know about Randys test and yeah if it was a larger house or something where I could think hmmm I wonder if.... then I would conduct that test to see. But this is a very common problem up here and I know many other fellow reefers in similar situations that are having similar issues.

Basically I just want decent PH and 02 levels for the sake of the animals as well as their growth etc. The c02 in the air I breathe may be an issue but not as much as it is for a tank because its not like the tank and air would be an exact match... I would think the air would need to be significantly higher in order for it to absorb 02 and gas off the c02.

I am open to suggestions on what I should do and whats best for the tank... outside of opening windows... Should I just do the larger water changes every other time like that in the winter months?

 

[mcarroll]

I would start by doing Randy's aeration test.

remember that CO2 is a nutrient for your corals.... so they deal with it just fine under normal circumstances.

It is us humans that high CO2 is a problem for.

There's no reason to assume that your oxygen levels are off

Opening a window is not the only solution if indeed there is a problem... start by validating your suspicions that there is a problem. You could be wrong.