Basic sump help

Bryan47

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So I got some great plumbing advice from a member on here and I am learning as much as I can. Big thanks to Avasquez01 as he is walking me through a lot of this on the phone and through messaging. One of the tanks I bought came with all the reefers accessories so I decided to set up the PVC overflow and return on my 55. This is more to get the hang of it rather than have a functional sump. I am working on a 40B build for cuttlefish and I have my 72 bowfront ready, both of those will be drilled and done with the bean animal. BOTH of those will be drilled. I did electronic engineering in school and for some reason plumbing doesn't seem to click in my head yet. I understand vacuums and things but the plumbing is still a little confusing. I got it working but have some basic questions.

1. What level should the water be at in my tank in comparison to the overflow pipe, and what level should the water be at in my sump.

2. How to I make the overflow more quiet? It makes like a white noise sound or a sucking sound. I have an aqualifter hooked up to it.

3. I'm gonna try to post a better picture of the sump, I can't seem to figure out which is the in and which side is the out of the sump.

4. This is probably the biggest one. How do I make sure if the pump quits the sump doesn't overflow and how do I make sure if the siphon stops the tank doesn't overflow?

5. Here's an easy one, I have a cpr overflow with a one inch bulkhead. What is the piece of pvc called that threads on to this and allows me to connect PVC pipe. I am assuming I can get all of this at Home Depot. Will a plumbing supply store have one inch bulk heads? If not is there anywhere around that has them?

6. Are there any places that re silicone tanks? Around here?

Sorry I know it's a lot of questions I am just trying to teach myself and for some reason plumbing isn't my expertise and I didn't wanna bug avasquez01 too much. I've attached pics! Thank you!
 
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Bryan47

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Blitzie

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So I got some great plumbing advice from a member on here and I am learning as much as I can. Big thanks to Avasquez01 as he is walking me through a lot of this on the phone and through messaging. One of the tanks I bought came with all the reefers accessories so I decided to set up the PVC overflow and return on my 55. This is more to get the hang of it rather than have a functional sump. I am working on a 40B build for cuttlefish and I have my 72 bowfront ready, both of those will be drilled and done with the bean animal. BOTH of those will be drilled. I did electronic engineering in school and for some reason plumbing doesn't seem to click in my head yet. I understand vacuums and things but the plumbing is still a little confusing. I got it working but have some basic questions.

1. What level should the water be at in my tank in comparison to the overflow pipe, and what level should the water be at in my sump.
This is more of a visual preference, Normal people with a black rimmed tank like the waterline to be hidden

2. How to I make the overflow more quiet? It makes like a white noise sound or a sucking sound. I have an aqualifter hooked up to it.
I am a little confused here, You mentioned above a Bean overflow but it that on a different tank? This is not a Bean system from the look of it. A Bean has 3 drains (Primary full siphon controlled with gate or ball valve, Secondary trickle flow to keep the primary at full siphon, and the last is an emergency full siphon) In regards to using an aqualifter as part of your drain read this http://www.lifereef.com/siphon.html
In regards to making a durso style overflow more quite there is an assortment of thing you could try and your best tool would be to do a search on this website

3. I'm gonna try to post a better picture of the sump, I can't seem to figure out which is the in and which side is the out of the sump.
Quick look at your sump and I don't think it matters on that style it looks pretty symmetrical

4. This is probably the biggest one. How do I make sure if the pump quits the sump doesn't overflow and how do I make sure if the siphon stops the tank doesn't overflow?
Set the water level in your sump so that when the power to the return pump is off the sump can hold the capacity of everything that drains back. Do NOT rely on a check valve or even a siphon break as they can both fail

5. Here's an easy one, I have a cpr overflow with a one inch bulkhead. What is the piece of pvc called that threads on to this and allows me to connect PVC pipe. I am assuming I can get all of this at Home Depot. Will a plumbing supply store have one inch bulk heads? If not is there anywhere around that has them? I think Exotic Fish and Coral as well as The Coral Reef both have bulkheads in stock, give them a call

6. Are there any places that re silicone tanks? Around here?
Not that I know of

Sorry I know it's a lot of questions I am just trying to teach myself and for some reason plumbing isn't my expertise and I didn't wanna bug avasquez01 too much. I've attached pics! Thank you!

Answered Above
 
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Bryan47

Bryan47

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Thank you SO much. You made that easy. The only thing is the sump must have a way to go it's to symmetrical where the water flows through and one panel is black.
 

Triggreef

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In regard to #2 , if you need to you can drill a 1/4 inch hole in the top of the drain tube. Then stick a 1/4" plastic tube in that hole to allow air in. Like ro style hard plastic tube. It is like a vent& will allow water to Dragon much more easier & constant. You may need 2 depending on how much water is draining. I've always done this & it quiets it down quite a bit. They actually sell elbows already made this way at some plumbing stores.

About seeing your water level, like someone said, turn off your pump now that is running& tank is draining. Then fill sump to the top. Turn it back on, & that's will be your max fill line. I'd actually use a permanent maker to give your self a Mark so you know.
 
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Bryan47

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Ok so there are already two holes drilled in the tops of the drain pipes and there is airline type tubing siliconed in. I am assuming I am supposed to hook one to the in line and one to the out line of the aqualifter.

It was looking like it was gonna overflow when I turned the pump off, I think a siphon was starting on the pump side so I did as directed and drilled a small hole on the return pvc just under the water line. This allows air in to break the siphon. I think I have the hang of it. We will see when I switch over to the cpr hob and I want to get some lock line for the return so it doesn't look so bad.

Next is drilling the back of my 40B to accommodate the bean animal. It has one hole for return and one hole for drain but I am going to take the advice of Avasquez01 and he is gonna help me to set up the rest. I suppose I should order the drill bit and the bulk heads. I can't wait to attempt to drill glass haha. You can't learn if you don't try it!
 

Blitzie

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I don’t think so.
People put airline tubing in the standpipes in an effort to quite the drains down and stop gurgling or other undesirable noises.

The aqualifter pump you have goes with the CPR overflow box. There should be a small nipple on the top of it for the tubing that goes to the suction side of the pump. It is what prevents it from getting air bound and flooding everything. This is why I gave you the link to the lifereef overflow boxes that don’t have that problem. This style of overflow will overflow / fail its not a matter of if but rather when.
 

143MPCo

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over-flow.JPG

I know you don't want to use the over-box for this setup, but Blitzie is right, the way you have it is a bit non-conventional. It might work (in theory) but I wouldn't trust it long term... if this is just a "testing-the-waters-setup" ok but you should consider using the over-flow box you have in the pic above.
 
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Bryan47

Bryan47

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Thank you so much for the detailed graphic! I bought what I needed and now I am using the CPR overflow. Don't notice much of a difference. Still don't understand how to make adjustments. Not sure why this whole water, vacuum, Gravity thing I don't get. I got the cpr going. It certainly isn't too quiet. Is it a good idea to have a ball valve on the drain side too?

Hopefully philrodrigo can drill my 40B tomorrow so I can get to working on the actual thing. My choices are durso, herbie, and bean animal correct?

Both Phil and Alex have recommended the bean animal is that the general consensus ?
 

SaltAddict89

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Bean and herbie are basically the same just the bean has 1 more drain and is more complicated from what ive heard. Just go to google and type in herbie vs bean and read a couple articles and make a decision from there. Thats what i did
 

Blitzie

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I agree that Herbie ad Bean Animal Drains are indeed similar But I disagree that the Bean is more complicated.
Both of these drains are what you call siphon drains so there is no air at all in the pipe so the are absolutely silent.
In both systems you have a primary drain and a secondary drain. On the primary you put a gate valve and close it to the point that water just barely streams out of the secondary drain (secondary has not gate valve). As you may know a drain running full siphon move a great deal more water then a gravity fed system like a durso. The reason you put the gate valve on the primary is to control the flow and to keep the siphon running without it starting and stopping which would make it noisy,
Now say the primary drain becomes blocked up, the water level would rise and the secondary without a gate valve would handle all the water flow but would be noisy as it would start and stop (but that is good as you would want to know something is wrong.).
Now the only difference between a Herbie and Bean is that the Bean has a 3rd emergency drain that does nothing except if the other two become blocked.

Here is a picture of my overflow. The Furthest is the primary, the middle is secondary and the closest is the 3rd Emergency only
Tank4.jpg



Here is the other side of the wall with the 3 drains going into the sump
The one with the gate valve is the primary
Tank5.jpg
 
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Bryan47

Bryan47

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Thank you so much that is exactly what I was looking for! So I take it you went for the bean animal? I think I will do this as I am a renter and it's not my floor if I have an uh oh. I love the setup. That description made perfect sense. I read about them and more so wanted people's opinions and what the hive mind had decided was best.
 
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Bryan47

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Since I already need a second hole drilled by Phil I mine as well have him put two. Right now I'm using a cpr overflow. I set up the sump two days ago just running water through it with a pvc overflow and it worked so I am using the cpr hob overflow. We have been at our current place about a year and haven't once lost power. We lost power and luckily I allowed enough room for back drain and when it came back on the it started right back up. It had an aqualifter pump.

I had read that full syphon can pull like double the water volume because of the vacuum. I will have to see the pump I have and see if it will handle it. I needed a stand for my 40B cuttlefish project and found a girl selling her old tank stand and everything with it so I got used sump and pump so it's nice to play around with before deciding on a final setup.

I appreciate the help everyone
 

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