Best refugium/skimmer layout, bypass or not bypass?

[CEReefer]

HI all!

New build in mind, and was wondering on which strategy to go for a sump with both refugium and a skimmer. I am not sure if it's best to bypass the skimmer (like in the eshopp r100, picture below) or to go more triton style sumps, where the refugium water comes from the skimmer compartment.

For whoever is not familiar with the eshopp style, after the filter socks, the majority of the water goes to the skimmer, with a small opening for part of the water to go to the refugium.

My main goal with the refugium is to have an healthy copepods population, therefore I was thinking that bypassing the skimmer would make sense, as the pods would get sucked in the skimmer and never make it back to the refugium (but.. do they even do that?). But then wouldn't having a 200micron sock already stop everything (or most) there?

What are your thoughts?

 

[sunken3]

i would suggest moving away from filter socks (as I am about to do).. they are such a pain.. look into a fleece roller.

if your skimmer creates too much turbulence it may be an issue for the pods. I currently have the trigger 44v2 sump which socks dump into the fuge area and the skimmer is after. if i had it to do over (which i plan to soon), the skimmer would come first - more chance of pods going into the main display while also less chance of skimmer micro bubbles going there.

 

[CEReefer]

i would suggest moving away from filter socks (as I am about to do).. they are such a pain.. look into a fleece roller.

if your skimmer creates too much turbulence it may be an issue for the pods. I currently have the trigger 44v2 sump which socks dump into the fuge area and the skimmer is after. if i had it to do over (which i plan to soon), the skimmer would come first - more chance of pods going into the main display while also less chance of skimmer micro bubbles going there.

Got it.. yes I was going to go with a roller too.. but do you think it is best to have it in a sequence (either skimmer > refugium or viceversa)? Or to have a bypass where some water goes one way and most goes to the skimmer?

 

[Michael White]

If using socks or roller mats as a first stage, then I prefer the skimmer as the 2nd stage and refugium 3rd. Keeps pods and other stuff from excessively fouling the skimmer. Refugium last provides best use of pods as a food source for display tank. I’ve tried both and this is my preferred layout. Running without socks or a roller mat reverses that, because the refugium is trapping and breaking down the uneaten food and waste directly. I don’t personally like that configuration, but some people have had success with that as well.

 

[sunken3]

i think there are arguments either way (no one size fits all). Currently my skimmer is after the fuge. I plan to reverse that when i have some time. mostly for what i stated above, i still end up with micro bubbles at times in the main tank from the skimmer and i believe you have a better chance for pods to make it to the tank without having to get past both the skimmer and the main pump. a bypass would be fine too. i have done that before as well.. trust me... not ALL your water will be skimmed either way... not unless you your drain pipe dedicated to the skimmer all on its own.. which is now what you're currently showing (or what most people would do).

 

[CEReefer]

If using socks or roller mats as a first stage, then I prefer the skimmer as the 2nd stage and refugium 3rd. Keeps pods and other stuff from excessively fouling the skimmer. Refugium last provides best use of pods as a food source for display tank. I’ve tried both and this is my preferred layout. Running without socks or a roller mat reverses that, because the refugium is trapping and breaking down the uneaten food and waste directly. I don’t personally like that configuration, but some people have had success with that as well.

So you would still go in sequence, no bypass?

 

[Michael White]

I don't prefer bypassing mechanical filtration because it ends up fouling the sump and requiring more frequent sump cleanouts IME. Depending on the flowrate through your sump and size of your skimmer pump, most of us end up with plenty of bypass of the skimmer anyways. Working on a sump under most stands is enough of a royal pita anyway, which is why I put mine in the basement!

 

[tricky_tran]

If using socks or roller mats as a first stage, then I prefer the skimmer as the 2nd stage and refugium 3rd. Keeps pods and other stuff from excessively fouling the skimmer. Refugium last provides best use of pods as a food source for display tank. I’ve tried both and this is my preferred layout. Running without socks or a roller mat reverses that, because the refugium is trapping and breaking down the uneaten food and waste directly. I don’t personally like that configuration, but some people have had success with that as well.

i have been researching this for my new build. I have seen many people with the skimmer in the first stage with the mechanical filters. thoughts on that?

 

[Michael White]

i have been researching this for my new build. I have seen many people with the skimmer in the first stage with the mechanical filters. thoughts on that?

I don’t see a problem with that, easier to work in anyway. I just like to keep the light from the refugium, macroalgae, and pods out of the protein skimmer. As long as you can maintain the skimmer chamber water level you’re good. My 100gal basement sump has the skimmer and heaters in the first chamber after the socks with the rest of the sump being a big refugium. No risk of an overflowing skimmer after a power outage or if I turn off the return pump, and easy to cleanout any settled debris from the bottom of the first section, and doesn’t foul the refugium substrate.

 

[Jeffcb]

Red Sea goes refugium , skimmer.... That my 250. I have a 900 (240 gal) otw and its same.
I run UV in skimmer compartment.

 

[schuby]

I have refugium > skimmer > return. No bypass. Reason: skimmer removes things from the water and I want my refugium to consume as much as it can before the skimmer "eats". Micro-bubbles don't get to my DT due to skimmer-tuning (not excessive bubbles coming out, stays off for 1-hour after daily feeding), baffle between skimmer and return (water flows over, reducing bubbles), and using coarse filter-floss around my return-pump intake (also keeps rogue snails out). I don't use filter-socks.

 

[tricky_tran]

I have refugium > skimmer > return. No bypass. Reason: skimmer removes things from the water and I want my refugium to consume as much as it can before the skimmer "eats". Micro-bubbles don't get to my DT due to skimmer-tuning (not excessive bubbles coming out, stays off for 1-hour after daily feeding), baffle between skimmer and return (water flows over, reducing bubbles), and using coarse filter-floss around my return-pump intake (also keeps rogue snails out). I don't use filter-socks.

are you growing any pods in your refugium or strictly for nutrient removal?

 

[hans4811]

This is how the Triton works also....refugium > skimmer > return. No bypass.

I don't think your pod population will be affected that much by going thru a skimmer. Some will I'm sure, but people have been doing it this way for a long time with no issues.

 

[CEReefer]

This is how the Triton works also....refugium > skimmer > return. No bypass.

I don't think your pod population will be affected that much by going thru a skimmer. Some will I'm sure, but people have been doing it this way for a long time with no issues.

Wouldn't you have some of the stuff from the refugium ending up in the skimmer?

 

[hans4811]

Water flows through the overflow teeth in the adjustable wall into Section 2. So it's filtered somewhat. Take a look at this guy's post...he has what you're thinking of doing, but wants to reverse it...to each his own.​

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/swapping-sump-compartments-established-tank.771059/

 

[schuby]

My sump is the Trigger Triton 44 v1. My entire setup was designed to run the Triton system (no water changes). I haven't chosen to use it that way, at first because I don't think it works on a new system, and now because my DOS-based auto-water-change and DOS-2-part-dosing works very well.

i don't get much chaeto in my skimmer section mostly due to the design of the baffles on my sump. I also put some coarse filter floss around my skimmer input that keeps any stray pieces of chaeto out. As far as pods, the skimmer only affects a small portion of the water flowing through the section. It can't possibly catch and remove every pod that goes through.

I do have pods in the chaeto in my refugium. I seeded both my DT and my refugium. I hope that some pods are able to get through the coarse filter floss on my return pump intake and get into my DT. I have a good pod population in both places.

 

[CEReefer]

Water flows through the overflow teeth in the adjustable wall into Section 2. So it's filtered somewhat. Take a look at this guy's post...he has what you're thinking of doing, but wants to reverse it...to each his own.​

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/swapping-sump-compartments-established-tank.771059/

I see.. I have to say, that if you use those kind of sumps, then yes, light spilling is a mess. I was thinking of either going with a custom, or getting an eshopp. so I would have a high wall refugium/skimmer chambers. and nothing a light deflector can't fix.

 

[hans4811]

my DOS-based auto-water-change

...best thing I've ever done right there ! Running for 2 weeks now...wish I did this a long time ago ! (sorry for the off topic OP) ;_)

 

[tricky_tran]

This is how the Triton works also....refugium > skimmer > return. No bypass.

I don't think your pod population will be affected that much by going thru a skimmer. Some will I'm sure, but people have been doing it this way for a long time with no issues.

my advanced acrylics 3 chamber sump is almost similar to this, but section 2 is the big part measuring aprox 25 1/2" x 24". I moved my skimmer to section 1 and am thinking of using the middle section as the fuge and additional reactors when needed. i seem to have a lot of real estate and just trying to figure out how to use it all efficiently.