BIG AND LOUD SALT COMPARISON THREAD

[GoVols]

When ever my nitrates get very low, which is rare..ill shut off my skimmer a couple days and dose my tank with red sea reef energy but i do not do daily doses as they recommend.

I dose Reef Energy too. Same as you. AS NEEDED

 

[mcarroll]

A requirement I do not see in most threads : NO ORGANICS!

Someone mentioned this to me a long time ago, even down to the factoid of the "vitamins or aminos or whatever breaking down within a week of mixing" but when I looked into it, apparently most salts do not have anything like that in the mix at all. None of the old-school mixes for sure.

If you know some specific exceptions, it would be awesome if you could name them – brand and model, please!

For What It's Worth
My experience is that even saltwater that's been used in a fairly dirty tank and removed for storage doesn't have issues.

In my case it sat for months...almost a year. When they were opened after all that time, there wasn't so much as an odor or growth. The water looked and smelled very clean.

New saltwater should be at least this good in storage. The most you will see is the clay/stuff that precipitates out once everything else is dissolved into the water. That stuff is no worry tho.

2¢

 

[GoVols]

Alright the RPM made it to my home today

Box shipped UPS and was delivered in great shape.

Glad I bought it last week (Premium Aquatics just posted sold out)

Just started mixing 3 (5-Gallon) jugs of RO/DI water.

So, First test is: Will it mix to 1.025 SG using 1/2 cup per gallon to see if you really get 205 gallons from a box at 1.025 sg...

 

[GoVols]

Someone mentioned this to me a long time ago, even down to the factoid of the "vitamins or aminos or whatever breaking down within a week of mixing" but when I looked into it, apparently most salts do not have anything like that in the mix at all. None of the old-school mixes for sure.

If you know some specific exceptions, it would be awesome if you could name them – brand and model, please!

For What It's Worth
My experience is that even saltwater that's been used in a fairly dirty tank and removed for storage doesn't have issues.

In my case it sat for months...almost a year. When they were opened after all that time, there wasn't so much as an odor or growth. The water looked and smelled very clean.

New saltwater should be at least this good in storage. The most you will see is the clay/stuff that precipitates out once everything else is dissolved into the water. That stuff is no worry tho.

2¢

Just an FYI,

I.O. "Reef Crystals" has that stuff in it. It's been around long enough to be considered "old school".

 

[GoVols]

Alright,
I started mixing the RPM 25 min. ago and it's crystal clear

The only salt I've used that mixes this fast and crystal clear was Aquaforest "Reef Salt.

Just checked the SG and it is a exactly 1.025 using 1/2 cup per gallon.

That's (2 for 2)

Will post again after checking the Big 3.

 

[mcarroll]

Just an FYI,

I.O. "Reef Crystals" has that stuff in it. It's been around long enough to be considered "old school".

Well...there are always details.

Here's how the conversation actually went down in post #2 of another thread:

Me: "...Most salt mixes that don't claim otherwise will have vitamins added. Those vitamins will break down in all salt mixes within about the first week...."​

(Click the post link to read on....R H-F tags in about two posts later.)

 

[GoVols]

Well...there are always details.

Here's how the conversation actually went down in post #2 of another thread:

Me: "...Most salt mixes that don't claim otherwise will have vitamins added. Those vitamins will break down in all salt mixes within about the first week...."​

(Click the post link to read on....R H-F tags in about two posts later.)

Just read both post on that old thread.

I don't understand what your getting at?

Your statement above said.

"Someone mentioned this to me a long time ago, even down to the factoid of the "vitamins or aminos or whatever breaking down within a week of mixing" but when I looked into it, apparently most salts do not have anything like that in the mix at all. None of the old-school mixes for sure.

If you know some specific exceptions, it would be awesome if you could name them – brand and model, please!"

I simply stated that "Reef Crystals" is old school reef salt to your above statement on this thread, and has stuff in it as an exception to your second paragraph.

No big deal, You asked for an old school salt that was an exception with vitamins and or aminos and I am saying Reef Crystals.

I also agree with RH-F, There is no scientific proof that the extra stuff added is beneficial but I used RC for years even though he always stated that. He'll be a regular IO man to the death (lol)

 

[GoVols]

Read the both the post.

Your statement above said.

"Someone mentioned this to me a long time ago, even down to the factoid of the "vitamins or aminos or whatever breaking down within a week of mixing" but when I looked into it, apparently most salts do not have anything like that in the mix at all. None of the old-school mixes for sure.

If you know some specific exceptions, it would be awesome if you could name them – brand and model, please!"

I simply stated that "Reef Crystals" is old school reef salt to your above statement on this thread, and has stuff in it as an exception to your second paragraph.

No big deal, You asked for an old school salt that was an exception with vitamins and or aminos and I am saying Reef Crystals.

I also agree with RH-F, There is no scientific proof that the extra stuff added is beneficial but I used RC for years even though he always stated that. He'll be a regular IO man to the death (lol)

If your looking at new school salts as an exception. Aquaforest Probiotic has those, bacteria strains and carbon.

 

[GoVols]

Alright back with the big 3 on RPM
Cal = 430
Alk = 9.1
Mag = 1420

For myself thats (3 for 3)

 

[mcarroll]

I don't understand what your getting at?

I was using the same meme as you in that other thread, we would simply have agreed there. "Like."

...still don't remember where I was initially told or read that generalization about vitamins/aminos....but I clumsily tried to remember and generalize RHF's reply in the thread, here earlier.

I just don't assume it's very common anymore.

I'm also still interested to hear of other specific brands/models that DO HAVE vitamins and amino acids (or similar) added. Not interested in "additives" in general.....just added nutrients.

Further, I think there was a question about water storage that was asked....and the presence of vitamins or not being a concern. I was addressing that as well....based on some experience storing water, there seems to be very little need for concern. (Perhaps concern of the vitamins no longer being useful, but not harmful or detrimental. Amino acids seem to be very shelf stable from what I can tell – no bacteria to eat them, no breakdown.)

 

[GoVols]

I was using the same meme as you in that other thread, we would simply have agreed there. "Like."

...still don't remember where I was initially told or read that generalization about vitamins/aminos....but I clumsily tried to remember and generalize RHF's reply in the thread, here earlier.

I just don't assume it's very common anymore.

I'm also still interested to hear of other specific brands/models that DO HAVE vitamins and amino acids (or similar) added. Not interested in "additives" in general.....just added nutrients.

Further, I think there was a question about water storage that was asked....and the presence of vitamins or not being a concern. I was addressing that as well....based on some experience storing water, there seems to be very little need for concern. (Perhaps concern of the vitamins no longer being useful, but not harmful or detrimental. Amino acids seem to be very shelf stable from what I can tell – no bacteria to eat them, no breakdown.)

I totally agree with you

Say you mixed and stored Reef Crystals it won't ruin the mix. You only lost the full benefit of the vitamins and amino's if they really have a benefit to begin with.

I have friends that use Aquaforest Probiotic. It kinda the same thing. AF clearly states that if you don't use it ASAP after mixing the bacteria strains, vitamins, amino's etc quickly degrade and they recommend buying their regular reef mix for storing. The Probiotic is like $85 dollars a bucket. If you stored it your just wasting your money

 

[mcarroll]

At least they are straight about it.

BTW, are you planning to try any plain jane salts (NSW levels) like Crystal Sea MarineMix or others?

 

[GoVols]

At least they are straight about it.

BTW, are you planning to try any plain jane salts (NSW levels) like Crystal Sea MarineMix or others?

I'm not looking to do (NSW) mixes anymore. My reef has better (Coral Color) results with slightly above (NSW) parameters.

If I keep getting boxes of the Fritz RPM that mixes close to the parameters I got last night at 1/2 cup per gallon it's going to be my long term mix

My reef looks the best with these params. and where I keep them.
1.025 SG
Cal. = 450
Alk = 8.5 - 9 dkh
Mag = 1400

I got my phos and nitrates back under control with old school means.
So, I stopped carbon dosing about 5 months ago.

I'm able to hold phos @ .04ppm (Hanna ULR Phosphorus checker)
and Nitrates between 3-4ppm (Salifert nitrate kit)
With that said: I've always kept a low fish bio-load compared to tank size.

I dose the Red Sea "Coral Colors" trace elements per calcium uptake and they've done my reef very well
I also dose their "Reef Energy" too but not every day.

 

[reefwiser]

A salt mix is not a limiting factor in the success of a Reef tank. The keeper is the biggest limiting factor.

 

[GoVols]

A salt mix is not a limiting factor in the success of a Reef tank. The keeper is the biggest limiting factor.

Tru Dat,

But... We're discussing personal experience's with (parameters from batch to batch) and storing etc.. to certain brand's we've used in the past or now on this thread, and there are differences

I've been around long enough to check the parameters on every new box or bucket That I open and mix for the first time.
Reef Crystals is good, but from box to box the mixing parameters can be all over the scale.
AF "Reef Salt" is all over the place too and it comes with a QC sheet, that (for myself) means nothing.

My goals is like @mcarroll To find a long term salt mix that mixes to the parameters my reef likes and is consistent from box to box and batch to batch.

 

[Rob Lion]

I still think that the main reason that so many people get inconsistent parameters from their chosen salt mix manufacturer, is that they end user doesn't thoroughly mix the dry salt before using it.

Think about it, the manufacturer makes their salt, they test it and it's given a quality assurance check. From there, its dumped into the bucket / box, and sent along many conveyor belts before being stacked in pallets for distribution.... it then travels by road / rail/ sea to wholesalers... who then move it on to retailers... who then get it delivered (or they pick it up).

A salt mix is exactly that, a mix of different salts, Sodium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Chloride, Potassium Chloride etc etc... each of these salt crystals have different densities and as such with all the shaking about they get from the time its first put into its container, to the time the end user scoops some out, the heavier density crystals have fallen to the bottom, and the lighter ones displaced to the top.

Therefore the heavier ones, such as Calcium and Potassium Chlorides will be in greater concentrations lower in the bucket, Sodium and Magnesium nearer the top.

That's why when I get a new bucket of salt, I empty it out and give it a good mix by hand. I then weigh out portions to match the amount needed to do a X Litre water change at my preferred salinity, and place that amount into a brown paper bag. I then put all those bags sealed up back into the manufacturers bucket for safe keeping. Now over time if that bag gets jiggled about etc, it makes no difference, as the whole contents of that bag goes into my X litre of RODI water for mixing for the water change.

Doing this, I have always found that my salt mix has consistent measurable parameters (Alk, Ca, Mg).

 

[GoVols]

I still think that the main reason that so many people get inconsistent parameters from their chosen salt mix manufacturer, is that they end user doesn't thoroughly mix the dry salt before using it.

Think about it, the manufacturer makes their salt, they test it and it's given a quality assurance check. From there, its dumped into the bucket / box, and sent along many conveyor belts before being stacked in pallets for distribution.... it then travels by road / rail/ sea to wholesalers... who then move it on to retailers... who then get it delivered (or they pick it up).

A salt mix is exactly that, a mix of different salts, Sodium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Chloride, Potassium Chloride etc etc... each of these salt crystals have different densities and as such with all the shaking about they get from the time its first put into its container, to the time the end user scoops some out, the heavier density crystals have fallen to the bottom, and the lighter ones displaced to the top.

Therefore the heavier ones, such as Calcium and Potassium Chlorides will be in greater concentrations lower in the bucket, Sodium and Magnesium nearer the top.

That's why when I get a new bucket of salt, I empty it out and give it a good mix by hand. I then weigh out portions to match the amount needed to do a X Litre water change at my preferred salinity, and place that amount into a brown paper bag. I then put all those bags sealed up back into the manufacturers bucket for safe keeping. Now over time if that bag gets jiggled about etc, it makes no difference, as the whole contents of that bag goes into my X litre of RODI water for mixing for the water change.

Doing this, I have always found that my salt mix has consistent measurable parameters (Alk, Ca, Mg).

Agreed and roll my salt a round too.

Aquaforest is the only manufacture that publicly stated on a forum that they are working on their QC methods. That they take a "batch sample" but... from each bucket to bucket from that batch the parameters have a big enough difference to get it resolved.

So, They need to roll around (Mix Up) their salt too, before dumping into single containers

I do appreciate their honestly and it takes a great company to "publicly state" we must improve.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't know how effective rolling around a bucket can be....I know that's not how they mix it at the factory.

The intention (and ideal) is that we mix a whole box/bag/bucket at a time to avoid inconsistency.

Contents of any given bucket within the bucket will be able to be random, thanks to the vibrational assistance of over-the-road transportation!

This is not going to be down to brand.....at least not these days. (All of them seem to mill their product to a fine powder these days.....RC and some others had some grain-size variation until they changed several years back which could have accentuated settling issues. Density should rule now – subtle, but still a factor I'm sure.)

 

[GoVols]

I don't know how effective rolling around a bucket can be....I know that's not how they mix it at the factory.

The intention (and ideal) is that we mix a whole box/bag/bucket at a time to avoid inconsistency.

Contents of any given bucket within the bucket will be able to be random, thanks to the vibrational assistance of over-the-road transportation!

This is not going to be down to brand.....at least not these days. (All of them seem to mill their product to a fine powder these days.....RC and some others had some grain-size variation until they changed several years back which could have accentuated settling issues. Density should rule now – subtle, but still a factor I'm sure.)

I agree

But... I still pull the entire bag out with the wife's assistance and we mix the crap out of it.
When the wife sees me opening a new box see "immediately" slug's her way into the kitchen.

If nothing else we get to play "twister" on the kitchen floor

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I prefer normal IO for a system like mine (now taken down).

I prefer a salt with no added organics because I like to store it for weeks, unstirred, and do not think vitamins in the water are useful anyway, even if they are not metabolized in the barrel waiting to be used for water changes.

I prefer a lower calcium mix because I like to use limewater (kalkwasser) and over the very long haul, that method raises calcium if maintaining alkalinity with it.

It is inexpensive and adequately quality controlled.

Moreover, I've never seen evidence that another mix was demonstrably "better".