Storing R/C salt

[ksed]

I like to make large batches of salt water and store it for approximately 7 days. Over the course of that time I'll make small water changes as opposed to one large one. I've heard not to do that with R/C salt because of the organics which can spur bacterial growth over that time. What are the implications of bacterial growth and can it be resolved by simply filtering it through a filter sock.
Thanks

 

[mcarroll]

I'm not sure the store you have is exactly right.

Most salt mixes that don't claim otherwise will have vitamins added. Those vitamins will break down in all salt mixes within about the first week.

It shouldn't affect the overall mix very much other than the obvious loss of the vitamins though - not in only one week, usually not even for longer periods if your makeup water and container(s) is clean.

It literally takes five minutes to mix fresh reef crystals, so I never recommend mixing it in advance, but one week is not that much time. There's almost no chance of you running into a problem just keep it covered after you make it.

 

[jsker]

It does not take that long to mix any salt. The real time is waiting for a Ro/Di unit to produce water. In my case 50 minutes for 5 gallons. Why not have Ro/Di water on hand to make a water change much faster, and one is not waiting? My conclusion is to have a tank with pre filtered water stored on hand, and the tank has a float with a shut off so I do not have sit there waiting for the bucket to fill or even worse spill over. When I make a water change I have the water on hand to make a water Change on my time.

 

[rayn]

I find it easier to have it on hand and mixed. Sometimes I have to squeeze in my water changes. Salt mixed in the tub and ready for the change, then refill with both water and salt. Float valve for shut off and a tight lid.

A week shouldn't hurt anything though.

 

[JReefaddict]

I've noticed if I leave the leftover coral pro in the bottom of my can and let it sit, it gets an almost thick gel texture to it. Coral pro mixes instantly compared to reef crystals, I just keep enough fresh water on hand and then dump the salt in and usually within 10 mins I have 35G of water provided I hit the salinity right on the nose

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think most salt mixes do not contain vitamins unless they say so (normal IO does not, for example), but Reef Crystals certainly does, and it also contains organic metal chelators.

The concern with storing it is that the organics will degrade and/or be consumed by bacteria (which is a concern if the organics added a benefit, but I'm not convinced of that) and if you do not keep it aerated, there is the potential for it to become stagnant and for hydrogen sulfide to form. I've not heard of that happening, but I'm not sure how many people check for that.

The actual bacteria generally don't concern me whether they get into the aquarium or not.

So if you keep the water aerated, the mostly likely issue is just the loss of the vitamins. I presume the breakdown products of the vitamins are not going to be particularly toxic for any of the creatures we keep at the levels likely to be present.

FWIW, I make normal Instant Ocean in a large batch and keep it unstirred for over a month. :)

 

[ksed]

Thanks to all for your answers. I will go ahead and try to make large batches of salt water and see what happens. Like most have mentioned already, nothing dramatic I hope :)

Thanks to all, and Happy Holidays

Randy, What I have found is in some IO batches , the calcium and magnesium to be a little on the low side eg 350 calc and 1200-1250 mag. Which is not that big of a deal. The difference in price for RC and IO is $5 so what I normally do is mix 50% IO and 50% RC just to bring the levels up a bit. Doing it this way I have found levels to never drop below 400 cal and 1280 mag, which avoids me from having to purchase any other additives.
I also have found I do more water changes by doing smaller but more frequent changes. Primarily because I don't have to shut off my return and flow pumps, heater, skimmer and many other accessories. This way I leave everything running and takes five minutes ;). Although doing one large water change may remove more of the elements that you may want to remove, that's the only disadvantage I see by doing smaller and more frequent changes.

Thanks Randy, Happy Holidays

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks to all for your answers. I will go ahead and try to make large batches of salt water and see what happens. Like most have mentioned already, nothing dramatic I hope :)

Thanks to all, and Happy Holidays

Randy, What I have found is in some IO batches , the calcium and magnesium to be a little on the low side eg 350 calc and 1200-1250 mag. Which is not that big of a deal. The difference in price for RC and IO is $5 so what I normally do is mix 50% IO and 50% RC just to bring the levels up a bit. Doing it this way I have found levels to never drop below 400 cal and 1280 mag, which avoids me from having to purchase any other additives.
I also have found I do more water changes by doing smaller but more frequent changes. Primarily because I don't have to shut off my return and flow pumps, heater, skimmer and many other accessories. This way I leave everything running and takes five minutes ;). Although doing one large water change may remove more of the elements that you may want to remove, that's the only disadvantage I see by doing smaller and more frequent changes.

Thanks Randy, Happy Holidays

That sounds like a fine plan. I used to boost my IO with calcium and magnesium, but find it is no longer necessary in my system since they raised the levels a few years back. :)

 

[jason2459]

Problems I had with storing reefcrystals and using it at a later date was my skimmer would overflow after every water change. I think its due to the bacteria consuming the organics that are then added to the tank and the skimmer actively removing them. If I made a fresh batch of RC and used it the skimmer wouldn't overflow. I switched to IO many years ago due to wanting to store it and use it slowly over time. I also like the lower values of IO as it's much easier for me to increase anything I need then to reduce them.

 

[mcarroll]

I think most salt mixes do not contain vitamins unless they say so (normal IO does not, for example), but Reef Crystals certainly does, and it also contains organic metal chelators.
[....]

I guess there must be exceptions with different salt mixes, but you are the first person I have heard claim that there are some type of organics besides clay in the mix as a chelator...which the clay is the supposed reason people see the red, brown (or with Red Sea, black) residue in their mixing containers. To my knowledge, instant Ocean is not immune from this mixing symptom, so it would seem to also have clay.

The manufactures don't seem to publish this info, but if you could provide any kind of reference to where your information came from I love to read that too!

For my own part, I have gotten information from manufactures (not Aquarium Systems) in the past (perhaps dated) as well as hearsay that seemed to be supportive of there being vitamin and clay as additives.

From what I could determine, there are a scant few brands (none mainstream) which claim to use "no additives". These also tend to make claims about special appropriateness for lab use.

$0.02

 

[jason2459]

There's quite a few salts mixes that add organics like vitamins and aminos and marketing them as reef specific salts.

Edit: I see the discussion is about the chelator. Nvm

 

[mcarroll]

In case it helps, I just called aquarium systems and they confirm no vitamins in either of their salt mixes, but there are chelators in reef crystals.

Further, they do claim that the chelator is what's responsible for the brown residue in mixing containers.

It is not clay.

[emoji1][emoji38]

Wiping down a container with hot water and vinegar once every six months is recommended to prevent this buildup of chelator on the plastic of your container.

I also asked, and no, this info is not published anywhere.

I'd be curious to hear Tropic Marin's answers...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There's quite a few salts mixes that add organics like vitamins and aminos and marketing them as reef specific salts.

Edit: I see the discussion is about the chelator. Nvm

I only know of Reef Crystals and Tropic Marin Bioactif that add vitamins.

There may be others, but do you have a list of ones that do?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In case it helps, I just called aquarium systems and they confirm no vitamins in either of their salt mixes, but there are chelators in reef crystals.

Further, they do claim that the chelator is what's responsible for the brown residue in mixing containers.

It is not clay.

[emoji1][emoji38]

Wiping down a container with hot water and vinegar once every six months is recommended to prevent this buildup of chelator on the plastic of your container.

I also asked, and no, this info is not published anywhere.

I'd be curious to hear Tropic Marin's answers...

There are vitamins and chelators in Reef Crystals (unless they recently removed the vitamins, but it is still advertised as having them)

Neither vitamins nor chelators are present in normal Instant OCean. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, the chelator I am talking about is not clay (which isn't technically a chelator), but rather an organic compound. But my source did not specifiy which one other than it was commonly used in water conditioners. Things like EDTA, although I'm not claiming that is the one.

 

[mcarroll]

Aquarium systems confirmed it was not Clay when I spoke to them. Fwiw

 

[jason2459]

Interesting they said no vitamins are added to Reef Crystals. They should change how they are marketed then.

Reef Crystals Reef Salt

*
Enriched synthetic sea salt designed for use in reef aquariums
*
Extra calcium, trace elements and vitamins to maintain a thriving reef system
*
Eliminates the need for supplements & is compatible with all reef and fish-only aquariums
Enriched Reef Crystals Reef Salt is formulated especially for reef aquariums. Contains extra calcium, select trace elements, and vitamins above natural seawater concentrations.

 

[mcarroll]

Like most things corporate - it's all but impossible to get straight answers once you get past marketing...

 

[mcarroll]

I still don't recommend mixing salt water in advance since mixing time is so minimal - no more than 5 minutes. That's all I know for sure. LOL

 

[jason2459]

I only know of Reef Crystals and Tropic Marin Bioactif that add vitamins.

There may be others, but do you have a list of ones that do?

I don't have any kind of extensive list but I will assume a product saying they area made for Reefs contain organics but know not all do. I don't switch salts a lot. Once in about 10 years and don't foresee doing so anytime soon if ever so I don't research it to much but out of curiousity I went to a couple popular sites and looked at salts they sell and their descriptions. From that it looks like many includes some kind of organics.


Tropic Marin Bio-Actif Salt Mix - boosts functionality with bioactive substances


hw-Marinemix Reefer Salt Mix - biocatalyst system


Tunze Reef Excel Lab Marine Salt - bio elements ? may just be talking about the major/trace elements

Reef Crystals - Extra Vitamins to ensure vigorous growth and survival of corals, anemones and other invertebrates in a captive environment
•Metal Detoxifier - to neutralize traces of heavy metal often present in domestic water supplies.

Instant Ocean - none that I can see

Red Sea Coral Pro and regular Salt Mix - none that I can see

NeoMarine Salt Mix 150 Gallon - Brightwell Aquatics - specifically states they do not add vitamins, aminos, chelators, or any other organics but I have a hard time believing what they say positive or negative

Kent Marine Reef Salt Mix - none that I can see

Coralife Marine Salt - Rich in vitamins,

Nutri-SeaWater - Among many other weird claims: contains 11,000,000+ live marine heterotrophic, autotrophic, and chemolithotrophic bacteria per gallon

AccuraSea® Natural Seawater - what ever didn't get filtered out


Kordon Coral Sea Complete Salt Mix for Marine Aquariums - Vitamins and other proprietary components

I think that's a pretty good sample.