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My Tank Thread
Thanks for this^^^
Bleach Sterilization for QT and Equipment- Amount vs Time
- Thread starter Reefahholic
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Victoria M
5000 Club Member
https://www.healthunit.com/uploads/mixing-of-bleach.pdf
This is a helpful site also. So @neilp2006 how do you know that stuff? That is smarter than your average bear...
Are you old enough to get that reference? lol
This is a helpful site also. So @neilp2006 how do you know that stuff? That is smarter than your average bear...
Are you old enough to get that reference? lol
Im a PhD microbiologist and infectious disease crisis expert. I work with a bunch of decontamination chemicals and bleach is about the most versatile and effective there is, if used properly.
And yeah- I get the reference, lol.
I only see bleach as a viable cleaning methos for things that are hard to clean and you need to rely on bleaches power of oxidizing organics in places you cant reach. In example pores of live rock.
If they are flat regular eaily accessible surface's then a scub pad some vinegar a healthy dose of RO rinse and air dry is good.
If they are flat regular eaily accessible surface's then a scub pad some vinegar a healthy dose of RO rinse and air dry is good.
OP
OP
I’ve been unable to find any accurate information about bleach. I posted in the chemistry forum with no luck. Randy hasn’t weighed in yet.
Unless I find anything better...I’m gonna rely on the chart that HotRocks posted. I used 5 tbsp’s last night to sterilize a 10/G tank. The bleach didn’t list the strength so I just went with 5 vs 3.
This seems to be pretty on point:
Unless I find anything better...I’m gonna rely on the chart that HotRocks posted. I used 5 tbsp’s last night to sterilize a 10/G tank. The bleach didn’t list the strength so I just went with 5 vs 3.
This seems to be pretty on point:
OP
OP
I’m just confused. I’ve heard that it doesn’t, but then you run into stuff like this:
https://www.info.gov.hk/info/sars/en/useofbleach.htm
The Clorox website says it cleans better when Hot water is used????
https://www.clorox.com/how-to/laundry-basics/bleach-101/hot-water-and-bleach/
Who knows???
Lol, I do...
I use bleach and hot water all the time at my job and I work with category 3 microorganisms. I trust bleach to keep me alive.
I’m a microbiologist and infectious disease crisis expert in real life
I use bleach and hot water all the time at my job and I work with category 3 microorganisms. I trust bleach to keep me alive.
I’m a microbiologist and infectious disease crisis expert in real life
OP
OP
Are you really??? I feel much better now!
OP
OP
You are the exact person I was looking for to respond to this. Thank you for your expert advice sir! Much appreciated! I’ll now use 5 tbsp per 10/G. I’ll measure and mark my cup tonight.
You are the exact person I was looking for to respond to this. Thank you for your expert advice sir! Much appreciated! I’ll now use 5 tbsp per 10/G. I’ll measure and mark my cup tonight.
Thanks, but @HotRocks already said everything I did. Credit should go to him.
I’m glad you were researching the issue- it’s nice to see some personal initiative and to see people asking for sources.
OP
OP
I give you both good credit.
I planned on using that paper posted above because that’s the best thing I’ve seen yet. I just wanted to be sure. Always good to ask questions!
I give ol’ Humble credit too...even though he is no longer with us.
Me and Humble go way back to RC. I remember when he first showed up over there. I was trying to learn everything I could under Snorvich. The Humble started chiming in with highlighted blue replies. I thought, who is this guy?
Here’s Snorvich’s suggested protocol from a long time ago. I save everything:
Snorvich: Protocol/Credentials
Multiple undergraduate degrees, biology, math, physics. Graduate degree as well with two specialties: quantitative methods and strategy. College level instructor adjunct professor. Aquariums for slightly more than a half century. Salt water for 3 decades. About 3000+ dives, mostly in Southeast Asia. Professional level underwater photography (formerly, no longer).
My suggested protocol is to use tank transfer for all new specimens to insure against cryptocaryon irritans. 12 days and two 20 gallon tanks is all it takes. The initial receiving tank is temp and SG adjusted to the bag water ( SG a few points couple of points lower than the bagwater is ok but not higher) This obviates the need for drip acclimation and prolonged stays in bag water where pH can rise and ammonia toxicity can increase once the bag is opened. This is particularly important after prolonged stays in the bag. During the 12 day tank transfer process ( 3 day stays 4 transfers, move fish on the morning of days 4,7,10,13) observe for other maladies. Since there are no meds to interact with in the transfer tanks which contain freshly mixed salt water aged and aerated overnight, use an ammonia detoxifier during each 3 day period. Bound copper products for example can't be safely used with ammonia detoxifiers as more toxic free copper occurs with lethal copper toxicity, even though total copper measures the same.
If there is reason to suspect infestation with brooklynellosis, velvet or flukes, do a formalin bath before starting treatment with copper for velvet, formalin for brooklynellosis or prazi pro for flukes. Since not all maladies will present symptoms in the 12 days ( flukes can easily be missed, velvet can take up to 30 days to present), use a larger cycled QT tank for an additional 2 to 4 weeks of observation depending on the condition of the fish with treatment as nessessary. Most fish receive no medications yet all are effectively prophylactically treated for ich,the most common killer.
Ammonia is monitored and has never been an issue during the 3 day stay but a detoxifier is added just in case, The cycled tank takes care of itself. BTW there is no need to worry about nitrite or nitrate.
Victoria M
5000 Club Member
lol. I knew there was something more to your answers than a fish guy. lol.
Yes, Hotrocks is the bomb! The kindess he demonstrates to us knuckleheads is astounding. And his knowledge of effective treatment plans is solid. It has been sooo many years since I fully stocked an aquarium I was completely unprepared for the current challenges fish are up against coming through the supply chain. I read up in this sub forum, so I had each of the medications I might need on hand. But, wow, was it eye opening to see my new pets struggling so bad. And I lost 4/7 of the fish I ordered. I will never mix a wild caught and tank bred group together in QT again. But I digress...
OP
OP
Here’s some more from Snorvich:
As a prophylactic methodology for ich (and only ich), tank transfer will result in 100% success rate with healthy fish. I agree only one fish at a time is desirable. Any other prophylactic methodology has a risk (be it chloroquine phosphate, hyposalinity, or copper) because for ich, the first part of the life cycle is highly predictable from a time perspective, whereas the back end of the life cycle is not. The timing of theront emission is highly variable, normally up to 28 days, but depending on strain of cryptocaryon irritans, it has been known to take up to 72 days. Theronts are the vulnerable part of the life cycle and are killed by chloroquine phosphate, copper if it is at a therapeutic level, or hyposalinity if it is a 1.009 SG. An average life cycle appears to be 1 to 2 weeks; however, life cycle durations may range from 6 days to 11 weeks, primarily because of the unpredictability of tomont development (Colorni and Burgess 1997; Dickerson 2006; Yambot 2003). Virtually noone keeps fish in a prophylactic quarantine that long, and few keep it for 35 days which would be the requirement to kill theronts in the normally occuring time frame. Whereas with tank transfer, 12 days and you are 100% certain to eliminate ich (cryptocaryon irritans) This is why we see anecdotal cases where "quarantine" for ich is unsuccessful.
As a prophylactic methodology for ich (and only ich), tank transfer will result in 100% success rate with healthy fish. I agree only one fish at a time is desirable. Any other prophylactic methodology has a risk (be it chloroquine phosphate, hyposalinity, or copper) because for ich, the first part of the life cycle is highly predictable from a time perspective, whereas the back end of the life cycle is not. The timing of theront emission is highly variable, normally up to 28 days, but depending on strain of cryptocaryon irritans, it has been known to take up to 72 days. Theronts are the vulnerable part of the life cycle and are killed by chloroquine phosphate, copper if it is at a therapeutic level, or hyposalinity if it is a 1.009 SG. An average life cycle appears to be 1 to 2 weeks; however, life cycle durations may range from 6 days to 11 weeks, primarily because of the unpredictability of tomont development (Colorni and Burgess 1997; Dickerson 2006; Yambot 2003). Virtually noone keeps fish in a prophylactic quarantine that long, and few keep it for 35 days which would be the requirement to kill theronts in the normally occuring time frame. Whereas with tank transfer, 12 days and you are 100% certain to eliminate ich (cryptocaryon irritans) This is why we see anecdotal cases where "quarantine" for ich is unsuccessful.
Just to clarify, Humblefish is still “with us”— he’s just not in R2R because he’s busy because he’s setting up s QT business.
It’s already led to at least one person thinking the worst, so I wanted to clarify.
It’s already led to at least one person thinking the worst, so I wanted to clarify.
OP
OP
This is some old school information, but fun to look back at it now. The guy is definitely educated! Some of the stuff has changed now.
Victoria M
5000 Club Member
Yes, I learned a lot from snorvich and read many of the papers he cited. He often posted links for me, and I have lost them with iPad and computer damage.
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