BRS titanium heater shocking me

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

all of my Circuit breakers in my main breaker box are GFCI....my wall plugs are not. There was definitely "tingle" in the water (both sump and display). I started with the two gyre's in the display tank first, and unplugged items one at a time until I got to the heaters...I unplugged one and the "tingle" was weaker, but still there, so I unplugged the 2nd one, and ALL GONE, no more tingle at all. Both are Titanium 300 watt heaters. I replaced them with two old Ebo Jaeger's I had in a box, and no more tingle with those. Not sure what is going on with BOTH titanium heaters.

I would not be sure the effect is anything other than that titanium heaters grounding the tank. It might not be a defect at all. A true current leak should trip the GFCI.

Maybe Bean can better sort this.

@BeanAnimal

 

[reefmaster70]

I would not be sure the effect is anything other than that titanium heaters grounding the tank. It might not be a defect at all. A true current leak should trip the GFCI.

Maybe Bean can better sort this.

@BeanAnimal

so are you saying that it's NOT my titanium heater? I unplugged each and every piece of equipment one by one to find it, and I felt the tingle every time until I unplugged the heaters. I was also barefoot when doing it on cement floor, so was a good conductor. But I had absolutely no shocking sensation from the sump or display tank when I unplugged the heaters.

 

[Kooma]

all of my Circuit breakers in my main breaker box are GFCI....my wall plugs are not. There was definitely "tingle" in the water (both sump and display). I started with the two gyre's in the display tank first, and unplugged items one at a time until I got to the heaters...I unplugged one and the "tingle" was weaker, but still there, so I unplugged the 2nd one, and ALL GONE, no more tingle at all. Both are Titanium 300 watt heaters. I replaced them with two old Ebo Jaeger's I had in a box, and no more tingle with those. Not sure what is going on with BOTH titanium heaters.

On thing that is important to do is add a grounding probe. I know lots of people consider the titanium heaters to be a grounding probe, but in your instance they didn't do their job.

A grounding probe and GFCI will cause a trip the moment voltage leakage is detected. A gfci without a proper grounding probe will sit there supplying power until your body becomes the path to ground.

Id also suggest buying a GFCI tester and plugging it into your outlet, and tripping the GFCI. It should loose power instantly.

Once you have your volt meter, check each pin on the plug of your old heaters to the body of the heater itself and see if you have any continuity. Let us know what you find!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

so are you saying that it's NOT my titanium heater? I unplugged each and every piece of equipment one by one to find it, and I felt the tingle every time until I unplugged the heaters. I was also barefoot when doing it on cement floor, so was a good conductor. But I had absolutely no shocking sensation from the sump or display tank when I unplugged the heaters.

I said it may be the normal function of a titanium heater to act as a ground, and that could be the source of the tingle, rather than a current leak that should have tripped the GFCI.

. I asked Beananimal to comment as he understands these sorts of issues better than I do.

 

[reefmaster70]

OK, just an update with an unusual TWIST to this whole story. So.....after pulling both my Titanium heaters, and replacing them with Glass Ebo Jaeger heaters that got rid of the "tingly current" feeling I had run through my fingers when touching the water in my sump or DT. So I figured it was the heaters. So I spent some money and got some new titanium heaters, plugged them into the heater controller, and fired it up. I'll be danged, got the tingly feeling in my fingers again. What the???? How can this be? So, I started looking at where I have everything plugged in. So I am still working in setting my Apex up, so I Just have two power strips running the basics right now for the tank to run. I have one power strip running all 5 of my AI 32hd's and then a 2nd power strip that my return pump, ATO, skimmer, and powerheads are on. So I noted that my Heater controller was plugged into the same ADJ power strip with all of the lights. Could this be the issue? I unplugged the heater control from the powerstrip with the lights, and plugged it into the power strip with the Skimmer, ATO, etc....and Tingly fingers.....GONE. So why would I be getting the tingle feeling when it's plugged in with my lights??

 

[UncommonSense]

OK, just an update with an unusual TWIST to this whole story. So.....after pulling both my Titanium heaters, and replacing them with Glass Ebo Jaeger heaters that got rid of the "tingly current" feeling I had run through my fingers when touching the water in my sump or DT. So I figured it was the heaters. So I spent some money and got some new titanium heaters, plugged them into the heater controller, and fired it up. I'll be danged, got the tingly feeling in my fingers again. What the???? How can this be? So, I started looking at where I have everything plugged in. So I am still working in setting my Apex up, so I Just have two power strips running the basics right now for the tank to run. I have one power strip running all 5 of my AI 32hd's and then a 2nd power strip that my return pump, ATO, skimmer, and powerheads are on. So I noted that my Heater controller was plugged into the same ADJ power strip with all of the lights. Could this be the issue? I unplugged the heater control from the powerstrip with the lights, and plugged it into the power strip with the Skimmer, ATO, etc....and Tingly fingers.....GONE. So why would I be getting the tingle feeling when it's plugged in with my lights??

This is definitely a bit odd…

@BeanAnimal , would you be willing to offer some insight on this anomaly?

 

[winxp_man]

OK, just an update with an unusual TWIST to this whole story. So.....after pulling both my Titanium heaters, and replacing them with Glass Ebo Jaeger heaters that got rid of the "tingly current" feeling I had run through my fingers when touching the water in my sump or DT. So I figured it was the heaters. So I spent some money and got some new titanium heaters, plugged them into the heater controller, and fired it up. I'll be danged, got the tingly feeling in my fingers again. What the???? How can this be? So, I started looking at where I have everything plugged in. So I am still working in setting my Apex up, so I Just have two power strips running the basics right now for the tank to run. I have one power strip running all 5 of my AI 32hd's and then a 2nd power strip that my return pump, ATO, skimmer, and powerheads are on. So I noted that my Heater controller was plugged into the same ADJ power strip with all of the lights. Could this be the issue? I unplugged the heater control from the powerstrip with the lights, and plugged it into the power strip with the Skimmer, ATO, etc....and Tingly fingers.....GONE. So why would I be getting the tingle feeling when it's plugged in with my lights??

Are you operating off the same outlet? Both strips that is?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

OK, just an update with an unusual TWIST to this whole story. So.....after pulling both my Titanium heaters, and replacing them with Glass Ebo Jaeger heaters that got rid of the "tingly current" feeling I had run through my fingers when touching the water in my sump or DT. So I figured it was the heaters. So I spent some money and got some new titanium heaters, plugged them into the heater controller, and fired it up. I'll be danged, got the tingly feeling in my fingers again. What the???? How can this be? So, I started looking at where I have everything plugged in. So I am still working in setting my Apex up, so I Just have two power strips running the basics right now for the tank to run. I have one power strip running all 5 of my AI 32hd's and then a 2nd power strip that my return pump, ATO, skimmer, and powerheads are on. So I noted that my Heater controller was plugged into the same ADJ power strip with all of the lights. Could this be the issue? I unplugged the heater control from the powerstrip with the lights, and plugged it into the power strip with the Skimmer, ATO, etc....and Tingly fingers.....GONE. So why would I be getting the tingle feeling when it's plugged in with my lights??

I’m guessing it has to do with the heaters providing a ground from something at a different ground which may be at a different electric potential.

Bean?

@BeanAnimal

 

[reefmaster70]

Are you operating off the same outlet? Both strips that is?

each strip is plugged into a different wall outlet on opposite sides of the room.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’m guessing it has to do with the heaters providing a ground from something at a different ground which may be at a different electric potential.

Bean?

@BeanAnimal

I would be inclined to think that the Hydra's high frequency, high current switching is causing significant induced coupling to the heater's ground conductor and coupling that to the water through the heater's grounded envelope, or even placing actual leakage current on the ground.


In either case, I would want to make sure that the wall receptacle's ground and those of the power strips is functioning properly. This is easier said than done and therefore the best course of action is to run all of the equipment through a GFCI. This will allow the GFCI to break the circuit if that "tingle" is actual fault or leakage current.

I would leave the heaters on the second power strip, away from the HYDRAS.

I would consider adding a titanium ground probe, noting that this may be what the heater are doing, but the resistance in the chain heater shell --> wire --> power strip --> receptacle --> earth is higher than from your finger to ground.

Let me be clear about the grounded titanium heaters and/or the ground probe. In either case the path to ground is dangerous without a GFCI protecting the equipment plugged into the tank. It creates a scenario where you can become the circuit between a fault and the grounded water, even wearing insulated shoes for example. GFCIS are not optional here.

I would buy and use a simple receptacle testers that shows miswire and missing ground.

There is a lot more here that could be related to using two different receptacles and/or circuits connected to the same tank causing ground loops, but the combination of GFCI and properly testing the receptacles and electrical strips will eliminate most dangers.

I want to touch on the two circuits scenario. If those two different receptacles on opposite sides of the room are two completely different circuits (or even the same circuit with significant difference in wire length or bad connections or receptacles): Any slight difference in electrical potential or ground resistance between those two circuits will use your highly conductive saltwater to try and balance itself out. This (again) is why GFCI protection is so important.

I am sorry that my answer sounds generic, but there is a lot that would need to be tested through a fairly complicated process of elimination to actually figure out what the culprit is. In the end if it is annoying induced current, the GFCIs will not trip, and if there is dangerous fault current they will.

 

[reefmaster70]

I would be inclined to think that the Hydra's high frequency, high current switching is causing significant induced coupling to the heater's ground conductor and coupling that to the water through the heater's grounded envelope, or even placing actual leakage current on the ground.


In either case, I would want to make sure that the wall receptacle's ground and those of the power strips is functioning properly. This is easier said than done and therefore the best course of action is to run all of the equipment through a GFCI. This will allow the GFCI to break the circuit if that "tingle" is actual fault or leakage current.

I would leave the heaters on the second power strip, away from the HYDRAS.

I would consider adding a titanium ground probe, noting that this may be what the heater are doing, but the resistance in the chain heater shell --> wire --> power strip --> receptacle --> earth is higher than from your finger to ground.

Let me be clear about the grounded titanium heaters and/or the ground probe. In either case the path to ground is dangerous without a GFCI protecting the equipment plugged into the tank. It creates a scenario where you can become the circuit between a fault and the grounded water, even wearing insulated shoes for example. GFCIS are not optional here.

I would buy and use a simple receptacle testers that shows miswire and missing ground.

There is a lot more here that could be related to using two different receptacles and/or circuits connected to the same tank causing ground loops, but the combination of GFCI and properly testing the receptacles and electrical strips will eliminate most dangers.

I want to touch on the two circuits scenario. If those two different receptacles on opposite sides of the room are two completely different circuits (or even the same circuit with significant difference in wire length or bad connections or receptacles): Any slight difference in electrical potential or ground resistance between those two circuits will use your highly conductive saltwater to try and balance itself out. This (again) is why GFCI protection is so important.

I am sorry that my answer sounds generic, but there is a lot that would need to be tested through a fairly complicated process of elimination to actually figure out what the culprit is. In the end if it is annoying induced current, the GFCIs will not trip, and if there is dangerous fault current they will.

Actually this helps a lot and I appreciate you to bounce this stuff off of. I am actually a lighting designer by trade for the entertainment industry. I am well versed in electrical wiring, theory, etc. I have two titanium grounding probes for my tank. Not yet installed. I also have a circuit tester (among many other tools) to test proper wiring at my receptacles. I've always felt my homes wiring all functioned properly, but I am going to do some more testing now that I am having this issue. I didn't have the issue when my tank was located upstairs. Of course that was on a wood floor and not cement.