Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

[ScottB]

Dosed fluco again since some bryopsis popped up, same dose as before but this time i got some casualties. Only one of my sps seems to be in trouble. All parameters are as stable as before. Been dosing phosphate and nitrates as before since not even that has elevated even though its been 2 days since i added the fluconazole. I guess some sps really dont like that stuff.

I've really thought a lot about hit/miss on SPS from fluconazole. Anecdotally, it seems like maybe 1:20 times it does a number on SPS. My LFS has used it successfully on service client systems countless times without a problem and then BAM!

He asked me to go by that customer house and try to figure it out. I double checked amount dosed and all the tank params and everything was nominal. Be elements, Sg, temp, NO3, PO4. But the reef was completely wrecked by Day 2. The only bits that did not bleach or RTN were some shaded parts, but those eventually passed as well.

I had one hypothesis but don't really know how to go about testing the theory. Fluc is an anti-fungal medication. I've read that some fungi can release toxins when attacked... so maybe some few of us have this certain type that release toxins when attacked by the fluc?

 

[Marc2952]

I've really thought a lot about hit/miss on SPS from fluconazole. Anecdotally, it seems like maybe 1:20 times it does a number on SPS. My LFS has used it successfully on service client systems countless times without a problem and then BAM!

He asked me to go by that customer house and try to figure it out. I double checked amount dosed and all the tank params and everything was nominal. Be elements, Sg, temp, NO3, PO4. But the reef was completely wrecked by Day 2. The only bits that did not bleach or RTN were some shaded parts, but those eventually passed as well.

I had one hypothesis but don't really know how to go about testing the theory. Fluc is an anti-fungal medication. I've read that some fungi can release toxins when attacked... so maybe some few of us have this certain type that release toxins when attacked by the fluc?

Yea it seems to be rare but it does affect some sps. In my case its pinky the bear, yesterday the skin was completely peeling off. The surprising thing is that every other acro is doing fine. My list of acros are
WD
Cali tort
Sc orange passion
Tck sour polyp tenuis (this one im keeping an eye on since its a very rare piece and new release and seems to be a bit stn on base)
Tck pineapple express loss polyp extension
Tck purple pillow
Tsa bill murray ( getting a little pale)
Jf fox flame
Tck pikachu
Wwc cookie monster getting a little pale aswell
Vivid confetti is doing wonderful
Strawberry shortcake doing ok
And that is just some of the acros, the monties and all the other lps are normal as before. Strange how some get more affected then others.
My alk consumption hasnt dropped at all either, my phosphates and nitrates are still dropping although less then before ( my guess is the dying algae is releasing nutrients back into the water) so tha kfully i dose less of it daily.

 

[ScottB]

Yea it seems to be rare but it does affect some sps. In my case its pinky the bear, yesterday the skin was completely peeling off. The surprising thing is that every other acro is doing fine. My list of acros are
WD
Cali tort
Sc orange passion
Tck sour polyp tenuis (this one im keeping an eye on since its a very rare piece and new release and seems to be a bit stn on base)
Tck pineapple express loss polyp extension
Tck purple pillow
Tsa bill murray ( getting a little pale)
Jf fox flame
Tck pikachu
Wwc cookie monster getting a little pale aswell
Vivid confetti is doing wonderful
Strawberry shortcake doing ok
And that is just some of the acros, the monties and all the other lps are normal as before. Strange how some get more affected then others.
My alk consumption hasnt dropped at all either, my phosphates and nitrates are still dropping although less then before ( my guess is the dying algae is releasing nutrients back into the water) so tha kfully i dose less of it daily.

Great list of sticks; we have similar tastes. Sorry to hear about Pinky, but glad to hear your ALK consumption is steady.

 

[Marc2952]

Great list of sticks; we have similar tastes. Sorry to hear about Pinky, but glad to hear your ALK consumption is steady.

Thanks lets hope that things dont get worst, its day 3 and most of the bryopsis patches are turning white and shrinking.

 

[Marc2952]

Great list of sticks; we have similar tastes. Sorry to hear about Pinky, but glad to hear your ALK consumption is steady.

Ok update now alk consumption has dropped from 16ml a day to 5ml. No other casualties as of yet except for that pinky the bear which is almost completely stn. Very few bryopsis patches left and its just day 4.

 

[aarbutina]

Ok update now alk consumption has dropped from 16ml a day to 5ml. No other casualties as of yet except for that pinky the bear which is almost completely stn. Very few bryopsis patches left and its just day 4.

Yikes sorry to hear that. I guess I didn't post this here (was in a different thread), I definitely saw a decrease in ALK consumption around Day 3 when using fluconazole. But that decrease was temporary.

My feeling is that the people who see impact on their SPS with this treatment are seeing the impact of an ALK spike and not the impact of the medication itself. While I think the SPS temporarily shut down a little (hence the decrease in ALK consumption) due to the mediation, I think it is the alk swing. But that is just my gut.

 

[Marc2952]

Yikes sorry to hear that. I guess I didn't post this here (was in a different thread), I definitely saw a decrease in ALK consumption around Day 3 when using fluconazole. But that decrease was temporary.

My feeling is that the people who see impact on their SPS with this treatment are seeing the impact of an ALK spike and not the impact of the medication itself. While I think the SPS temporarily shut down a little (hence the decrease in ALK consumption) due to the mediation, I think it is the alk swing. But that is just my gut.

Yea thats why most people are having issue or just a big nutrient spike, in my case since i test alk daily it didnt catch me by surprise just a tiny spike , and my phosphates have actually stabilized since before i had to dose daily just to keep it up.

 

[swirlygig]

Anyone have success with a lesser dose? I dosed 1/2 recommended amount and bryopsis is still dying.

 

[Adamantium]

My GHA experience.
I dosed algaefix every 3 days for 6 doses or 18 days.
Then 1/2 dose fluconazole.
Algae was easy to pic off at day 18. After 1 week of fluconazole all algae dead.
Stopped algaefix at day 18.
No loss of any coral, fish, inverts.
Carbon back on after 3 days of fluconazole and never turned off skimmer.
Shut off carx as alk started to increase.
Carx back on after 1 week as alk started to drop.
Worked very well for me.
I only had gha.
Will let it run for 2 more weeks then a small water change of 10 gal on my 120.

Interesting to hear you didn't turn off skimmer at all, and even added carbon back before treatment was over. I thought both were no-nos. I'd like to keep my skimmer on to keep pH up, and remove DOCs from dying algae, but everything seems to say it skims out the fluconazole. Glad to hear that didn't happen for you. I just dosed yesterday. Maybe I'll turn it back on. I'm also dealing with GHA.

 

[Marc2952]

Update the treatmenr is almost done and i have lost 2 more acros, a tricolor valida which has RTN and the tck sour polyp didnt make it even though i fragges it when it was showing signs of RTN.... q bummer to say the least. Some brown stuff is starting to grow on the sand too i hope its not dinos again since all the algae is gone.

 

[swirlygig]

Update the treatmenr is almost done and i have lost 2 more acros, a tricolor valida which has RTN and the tck sour polyp didnt make it even though i fragges it when it was showing signs of RTN.... q bummer to say the least. Some brown stuff is starting to grow on the sand too i hope its not dinos again since all the algae is gone.

Sorry to hear that...i was nervous about dosing this stuff...zero issues on my end so far. Is it possible your tank was already stressed orior to treatment?

 

[Flipsquad81]

A quick update of my experience using fluconazole for bryopsis:
My tank was pretty thoroughly covered in byropsis. I dosed according the recommendation on the first page of this thread. After 2 weeks all bryopsis was gone! I turned on my skimmer but waited one more week before doing a large water change and turning on a GAC reactor. By the end of that third week I did notice my Chaetomorpha culture was beginning to die off a little (has since rebounded fine) - not a problem.

One thing I want to point out is that a few pages back I read a couple people writing that their corals died if fragged around/during the time of flucon treatment. I fragged a lot corals a couple days before dosing flucon and some of them RTN'd during the period, so I agree that fragging around/during flucon treatment should probably be avoided.

Aren't you supposed to remove chaeto and macro algae when using fluconazole?

 

[Hermie]

Is there a post in this thread that explains on a microbiological level how fluconazole works?

 

[ScottB]

Is there a post in this thread that explains on a microbiological level how fluconazole works?

Yes, on page 1 in the FAQ section.

 

[Marc2952]

Just wanted to update that after treatment i did a couple of water changes and ran carbon things are settling in again. Alk consumption actually dipped hard 2 days ago. Dipped from 8.4 to 7.6 in just 24 hours good thing i test alk daily. The consumption of phosphate has increased tremendously again to my surprise. There is not a single spec of algae but yet its dipping from 0.10 to 0.04 in a couple of hours again, gonna have to start dosing phosphate and nitrate again. This is amazing for algae there is no denying that only lost 3 acros out of probably 30 i got in my system so not that big of a deal i guess.

 

[Hermie]

Yes, on page 1 in the FAQ section.

FAQ says:

A: Fluconazole blocks the enzymatic pathway for the production of ergosterol. Ergosterol is essential for maintaining the cell wall integrity of plants. Ergosterol (ergosta-5,7,22-trien-3β-ol) is a sterol found in cell membranes of fungi and protozoa, serving many of the same functions that cholesterol serves in animal cells.

What's confusing me is that the second and third facts don't clear anything up.
1. "ergosterol is essential for plants"
2. it's a sterol found in "fungi" and "protozoa"

So what does fungi and protozoa have to do with plants? I don't get this.

I'm reading an article now that says ergosterol is a sterol that may have evolved in fungi due to life in wet/dry conditions.

We conclude that survival of drying and wetting is facili-tated in yeast, a unicellular eukaryote unable to maintain water homeostasis, by ergosterol. This essential component, specific to the membranes of fungi, increases the resistance to mechan-ical constraints and oxidation caused by water evaporation and direct exposure to atmospheric air. Therefore, evolution of the EBP may have been a key element in the conquest of solid–air interfacial habitats by fungi. The results of this study suggest a response to the enduring question “why ergosterol in fungi?” (Parks and Casey 1995).

I guess I need to find more articles talking about plants and ergosterol

 

[Hermie]

Ergosterol: Betraying The Presence of Fungal Attackers

Ergosterol, a 5,7‐diene oxysterol, is the most predominant sterol found in fungal cell membranes (Mohd As'wad et al., 2011; Zhao et al., 2005) and is of particular interest as a MAMP because of its potential to activate lipid‐based signalling events. Ergosterol biosynthesis has never been reported in plants and is thus recognised as ‘non‐self’ by a plant cell, thereby falling into the lipophilic class of biotic elicitors (Angelova et al., 2006; Granado et al., 1995; Sanabria et al., 2010). Although in planta determination of ergosterol can be used to estimate the level of fungal infection (Mohd As'wad et al., 2011), i.e. as a fungal marker as documented in cereal crops, including barley and corn (Dohnal et al., 2010), to date, this MAMP has not received as much attention as would be expected.

https://bsppjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/mpp.12127

 

[Hermie]

Here's what I'm thinking at the moment...

Fluconazole kills the fungi that are beneficial to some aquatic plants. And the plants essential die from microbial competition once that fungi is gone.

Or, fluconazole basically throws a wrench in the fungi-plant relationship by preemptive striking on the fungi and causing the fungi to respond with "aggression" towards the plant.

Or, the fungi dying on the algae-fungi interface gives rise to bacteria or other microbes that feed on the dead fungi, and those microbes are then able to directly outcompete the algae and kill it.

 

[FishPersonFL]

I have seemed to experience sealife dying after scrubbing bryopsis from rocks. Anthias seem sensitive to it. I also seem to have had some acros die off sometimes days later. I'm pretty sure I read a long time ago mature byopsis is toxic when eaten, therefore it's not eaten, and makes sense these toxins are released when it's cut or scrubbed when it's actually visible (mature?). Maybe this explains why some people are getting die off of certain sealife in their tanks using fluc. When the mature/visible bry is dying it's possibly releasing some type of toxin? BTW I think this toxin dissipates skimmed/absored by carbon as die off I experienced doesnt continue to affect other animals/sea life a long time span. This along with the alk spike some people experience could be the reasons for losses.
I just dosed mine, but I got sick of srcubbing rocks clean. I have some rocks with patches of it, hopefully not enough to kill anything. No skimming or carbon to pull any bad stuff out :-/ We'll see.....

 

[trout]

Having used fluconazole twice at different strengths ( 6 mg/L and 8 mg/L), I have come to the conclusion that the medication is effective is killing the algae, but its efficacy is questionable when it comes to killing its roots embedded in live rock or other surfaces. On both occasions, algae came back ( 1 year after the first treatment and 3 mo the after the second treatment) in exactly the same spots. I am not alone. Two other reefer have had the same experience.

For this reason, I will only use this medication only as a temporary measure in the future.