bubbling drains into sump/sump drain HELP

[Mini Coop]

I posted this on my build thread too - but wanted to make sure anyone possible could see this to give input.

The glass sump is draining a bit slow, so we took the strainer off and restricted flow a bit in both the drains for the main tank and the return. The levels have evened out, but no strainer on the 2" drain in the sump and bubbling coming from my drains (before we restricted flow).

It appears we are getting an air pocket here and there out of the returns as well.

Any help or advice appreciated!


Build thread in signature if you want to see more!

 

[Crabs McJones]

I posted this on my build thread too - but wanted to make sure anyone possible could see this to give input.

The glass sump is draining a bit slow, so we took the strainer off and restricted flow a bit in both the drains for the main tank and the return. The levels have evened out, but no strainer on the 2" drain in the sump and bubbling coming from my drains (before we restricted flow).

It appears we are getting an air pocket here and there out of the returns as well.

Any help or advice appreciated!


Build thread in signature if you want to see more!

I see you have your ball valve all the way open, close it little by little until your system creates a complete siphon, that should get rid of the air in the system. I had to do this with my eshopps eclipse overflow, if you close it slightly it creates a little bit of back pressure, just enough that it stops sucking air.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Look up bean animal style overflow and herbie overflow. Because you only have a single overflow tube at the moment, you will either get air (as you have it set up now) or you'll have a full siphon (restricted with a gate/ball valve) that will eventually overflow.

Ideally, having two drains, you can (edit: note this is neither a herbie or bean animal)

• Set the first as a full siphon (with an upside down 90 degree elbow) which can be restricted to allow 99% of the water through it without any air) which would be silent
• Set the second as an emergency overflow at the height you with to keep that sump at, and allow the additional 1% to trickle over. Again, this would be silent.

The benefit here is if your first restricted full siphon drain clogs, the emergency will handle the water and make an obscene gurgling noise so you know it needs attention

Edit #2.. the bottom of the tubes should both be underwater in the stock tank

 

[ihavecrabs]

I see you have your ball valve all the way open, close it little by little until your system creates a complete siphon, that should get rid of the air in the system. I had to do this with my eshopps eclipse overflow, if you close it slightly it creates a little bit of back pressure, just enough that it stops sucking air.

Yup! Same thought here. The only thing I'm concerned with is that there is no secondary overflow pipe like there is on the eshopps to handle that additional trickle or the event in which it clogs.

 

[Mini Coop]

Look up bean animal style overflow and herbie overflow. Because you only have a single overflow tube at the moment, you will either get air (as you have it set up now) or you'll have a full siphon (restricted with a gate/ball valve) that will eventually overflow.

Ideally, having two drains, you can (edit: note this is neither a herbie or bean animal)

• Set the first as a full siphon (with an upside down 90 degree elbow) which can be restricted to allow 99% of the water through it without any air) which would be silent
• Set the second as an emergency overflow at the height you with to keep that sump at, and allow the additional 1% to trickle over. Again, this would be silent.

The benefit here is if your first restricted full siphon drain clogs, the emergency will handle the water and make an obscene gurgling noise so you know it needs attention

Edit #2.. the bottom of the tubes should both be underwater in the stock tank

Are you saying that we should add a second drain to the Sump? As a back up overflow to the refugium? The display tank has two drains both set up with the Durso style set up.

 

[dansreef]

I agree with the prior two posters.... I would recommend closing the ball valve on the drain from the glass tank to your sump. You can remove the strainer.... I don't think you need to have it. Then find a setting for that ball valve that does not draw into a full siphon..... I would also give strong consideration to adding a second emergency drain from the glass tank to the sump. If the primary gets blocked.... from who knows what.... you then have an emergency drain. Just a piece of safety....to prevent a disaster if the primary drain clogs.

As for the micro bubbles coming from the left sock... I wouldn't worry about it. I have one side of my system that seems to drain faster than the other side. I understand there are a lot of factors...that could be at play. Simply one run being longer than the other could cause it. If you have ball valves on the two drain lines leading to the filter socks... you could balance the flow using them. I also get a lot more microbubble from one side.... since yours is going to then drain out of the glass tank into the sump.... I wouldn't worry about it. If you are getting microbubble in your display.... they are probably coming from the drain into the sump.... and not from the sock. I think also as those socks get used... you will see less microbubbles. One other observation....the pvc pipe from the glass tank to the sump... you could extend that to where it terminates below the water surface. you may be able to lessen the amount of splashing in the sump.

 

[dansreef]

Are you saying that we should add a second drain to the Sump? As a back up overflow to the refugium? The display tank has two drains both set up with the Durso style set up.

Is the glass tank that the filter socks are in a refugium? IF so.... then yeah... you need a strainer... and even more so need a second emergency drain from the glass tank to the sump. If you get macro algae that blocks up that drain... you will flood the glass tank. I would drill a second hole about 2-3 inches higher than the current drain. Put a bulk head and run pvc to the sump. No need for a ball valve...as that would be for an emergency blockage only.

 

[Mini Coop]

I see you have your ball valve all the way open, close it little by little until your system creates a complete siphon, that should get rid of the air in the system. I had to do this with my eshopps eclipse overflow, if you close it slightly it creates a little bit of back pressure, just enough that it stops sucking air.[/QUOT

Is the glass tank that the filter socks are in a refugium? IF so.... then yeah... you need a strainer... and even more so need a second emergency drain from the glass tank to the sump. If you get macro algae that blocks up that drain... you will flood the glass tank. I would drill a second hole about 2-3 inches higher than the current drain. Put a bulk head and run pvc to the sump. No need for a ball valve...as that would be for an emergency blockage only.

The glass tank is the sump where the filter socks and the protein skimmer are located. It drains into a 100 gal horse troff which will be used as our refugium. It will eventually have live rock in it as well. So the glass tank is not the refugium.

I understand about the micro bubbles. That makes sense and I am not that worried about them. I am more concerned that the drains from the display tank are gurgling when the system is running. I have two Durso style drains in the main tank that drain directly into the two filter socks. I have ball valves on each drain. They seem to run smoothly but its like they are taking in air every few seconds. Any thoughts about this?

 

[dansreef]

The glass tank is the sump where the filter socks and the protein skimmer are located. It drains into a 100 gal horse troff which will be used as our refugium. It will eventually have live rock in it as well. So the glass tank is not the refugium.

I understand about the micro bubbles. That makes sense and I am not that worried about them. I am more concerned that the drains from the display tank are gurgling when the system is running. I have two Durso style drains in the main tank that drain directly into the two filter socks. I have ball valves on each drain. They seem to run smoothly but its like they are taking in air every few seconds. Any thoughts about this?

Yup.... my drains aren't as quiet as I would like them to be. I run four durso type pipes, two from each overflow... I then combine the two into one drain pipe under the tank for each side. I have monkeyed around in trying to quiet the drains down for three years.... I haven't been completely successful. One thing that has helped is to drill a hole on the top of each durso...and insert a rigid airline. The stock durso's have these... if memory serves me right. I just drilled them a bit bigger and put in slightly larger rigid airline tubes. That is then pushed below the cap to about the water line. This eliminates the flushing sound that happens when a full siphon happens. I run a lot of water through the tank. I think I am running just below what 4 drains that size can manage. I cover my overflows to keep fish from exploring.... and yeah... I get a bit of salt creep...

I run a gold hammer head return pump and it runs full steam. I have four return outlets that I have plumbed across the back of the tank all being fed by one pipe from the pump. I have a ball valve I can dial back the return. The pump will then dial back... I do however keep it wide open.... I get a ton of flow. I still use one MP40 on one side... I may add another. The intent was to have an SP dominant tank.

I do also have ball valves on each of the drain pipes coming into the sump. It how becomes a delicate balance of how much water are you running up to the tank.... and can your drains manage it. Like I said... I have left things wide open. If I had to do again... I would have converted the four durso's into a bean or herbie type drain. I understand they are much quieter.

If you slow down the return back to your display.... then you could then close the valves some on your drains.... and that delicate balance will also help with the siphoning from happening...which causes the gurgle and flushing sounds.... will quiet things down.

Not sure this is helpful. I hope it is.

 

[Mini Coop]

Is the glass tank that the filter socks are in a refugium? IF so.... then yeah... you need a strainer... and even more so need a second emergency drain from the glass tank to the sump. If you get macro algae that blocks up that drain... you will flood the glass tank. I would drill a second hole about 2-3 inches higher than the current drain. Put a bulk head and run pvc to the sump. No need for a ball valve...as that would be for an emergency blockage only.

This tank only will have filter socks, protein skimmer and the drain. It isn't likely to get clogged at all - but then again never say never. I will not be tearing the entire thing apart to drill another hole. I wonder if there is a way to input an emergency drain without drilling the tank?

So - the bulkhead was leaking Always something . . . ya know! So, we took that pipe apart. We are going to turn the pipe upside down for the elbow and put a hole (basically create a durso drain) and see if this helps flow! This will also lower the water level in the glass, which I certainly want to do! I will let you know how it goes. And I will keep playing with the ball valves and the return and see if I can fine tune it!

I have to say - there is a local group on facebook, and they tend to just say 'you did this all wrong' with no suggestions of what to fix. I am so thankful for my R2R buddies.