Bubbling SPS disease

[justy]

No idea, I’ve also noticed two of my other acros with “tulip” like polyps and a Millie that stopped being fuzzy. The only thing I can think of is I’ve possibly been overdosing trace elements? But I feel like that is unlikely.

I have been switching out 1 T5 bulb a week since they were over 15 months old… that may have contributed?

Funny, I was just going to ask if any one is using older lights, I have some oldish hydra 26hd, which have some damage to some of the uv and violet chips, and wondered if a spectrum change may be a factor?

 

[Reefer Dan]

The only changes I’ve made in the past month to my care routine (when I started noticing this) are:

• Increased elements a/k (tropic marin) from 1.5 to 3 mL of each per day. This is what their dosage calculator recommends for my tank.—this is my bet, probably a build up of something resulting in the corals trying to deposit elements in their tissue to remove the toxicity.
• @justy i did Replace t5 bulbs, 1 per week. —lots of people do this and haven’t reported problems, so I anticipate not the issue.
• Dosing live phytoplankton ~40-60 mL/day. — unlikely an issue unless cultures were contaminated, but I’m thinking highly unlikely.
• Dosed magnesium to bump it from 1250-1300 ppm.- unlikely an issue.

I’ve been doing lots of reading on this and some people think it’s bacterial or viral. If this were the the situation, I would expect it to affect more than just 3 acros that I’m aware of (1-2 bubbling and 2 with tulip polyps). I suspect a water chemistry issue, that would explain the differing tolerances of the different acros?

I’m thinking I likely had a buildup of trace elements (may be completely wrong). I’m going to hold off on dosing my daily trace elements for a week and see if I notice anything.

Anyone know any coral pathologists that we could contact about their input?

 

[formallydehyde]

The only changes I’ve made in the past month to my care routine (when I started noticing this) are:

• Increased elements a/k (tropic marin) from 1.5 to 3 mL of each per day. This is what their dosage calculator recommends for my tank.—this is my bet, probably a build up of something resulting in the corals trying to deposit elements in their tissue to remove the toxicity.
• @justy i did Replace t5 bulbs, 1 per week. —lots of people do this and haven’t reported problems, so I anticipate not the issue.
• Dosing live phytoplankton ~40-60 mL/day. — unlikely an issue unless cultures were contaminated, but I’m thinking highly unlikely.
• Dosed magnesium to bump it from 1250-1300 ppm.- unlikely an issue.

I’ve been doing lots of reading on this and some people think it’s bacterial or viral. If this were the the situation, I would expect it to affect more than just 3 acros that I’m aware of (1-2 bubbling and 2 with tulip polyps). I suspect a water chemistry issue, that would explain the differing tolerances of the different acros?

I’m thinking I likely had a buildup of trace elements (may be completely wrong). I’m going to hold off on dosing my daily trace elements for a week and see if I notice anything.

Anyone know any coral pathologists that we could contact about their input?

Not a coral expert... but I can say with confidence there's a lot of limited host-range pathogens out there so I don't think a limited range of affected corals in a tank eliminates a pathogen at all, unless you happen to have a bunch of unaffected members of the exact same species in a tank together. Not saying it isn't water conditions, just that it's hard to eliminate pathogens as a possibility.

 

[sculpin01]

The only changes I’ve made in the past month to my care routine (when I started noticing this) are:

• Increased elements a/k (tropic marin) from 1.5 to 3 mL of each per day. This is what their dosage calculator recommends for my tank.—this is my bet, probably a build up of something resulting in the corals trying to deposit elements in their tissue to remove the toxicity.
• @justy i did Replace t5 bulbs, 1 per week. —lots of people do this and haven’t reported problems, so I anticipate not the issue.
• Dosing live phytoplankton ~40-60 mL/day. — unlikely an issue unless cultures were contaminated, but I’m thinking highly unlikely.
• Dosed magnesium to bump it from 1250-1300 ppm.- unlikely an issue.

I’ve been doing lots of reading on this and some people think it’s bacterial or viral. If this were the the situation, I would expect it to affect more than just 3 acros that I’m aware of (1-2 bubbling and 2 with tulip polyps). I suspect a water chemistry issue, that would explain the differing tolerances of the different acros?

I’m thinking I likely had a buildup of trace elements (may be completely wrong). I’m going to hold off on dosing my daily trace elements for a week and see if I notice anything.

Anyone know any coral pathologists that we could contact about their input?

I would send an Aquabiomics test just to see if anything unusual pops up. Are you dosing nutrients (nitrate/phosphate) by chance?

 

[Reefer Dan]

I would send an Aquabiomics test just to see if anything unusual pops up. Are you dosing nutrients (nitrate/phosphate) by chance?

Not presently. A couple ppm of nitrate in the past probably month, no phosphate in probably a year+. I think the aquabiomics is an interesting idea, the only problem is if something comes up it doesn’t give actionable details.

 

[sculpin01]

Not presently. A couple ppm of nitrate in the past probably month, no phosphate in probably a year+. I think the aquabiomics is an interesting idea, the only problem is if something comes up it doesn’t give actionable details.

It depends on what comes up. If it is bacterial, it may be actionable.

 

[Reefer Dan]

Update: No necrosis yet, seems more pink but that could be a result of feeding rhodomonas. Left is today vs a week ago. Still not sure what’s up.

 

[justy]

Update from myself, one SSC frag has been moved to another tank, with almost immediate improvement and all blisters gone within a couple of days. Not sure what that teaches us? Maybe it is environmental or due to pathogenic loading?

 

[Reefer Dan]

Random question, I’m wondering if it’s potentially uv/lighting related. Anyone else running t5/kessils?

 

[justy]

Random question, I’m wondering if it’s potentially uv/lighting related. Anyone else running t5/kessils?

I am definitely leaning towards lighting, I have had two more corals rehomed in new systems and both have lost all their blistering.
I have suspected my lights for a while, I have two hydra 26hd and both the uv and violet chips are damaged due to overheating, and I mean the diodes not the lenses these have been changed twice. I hypothesise that it could be due to a significant change in spectrum, not sure if the spectrum is now missing something or has shifted away from optimum levels? Anybody else using older or damaged lights?

 

[drawman]

Random question, I’m wondering if it’s potentially uv/lighting related. Anyone else running t5/kessils?

I am definitely leaning towards lighting, I have had two more corals rehomed in new systems and both have lost all their blistering.
I have suspected my lights for a while, I have two hydra 26hd and both the uv and violet chips are damaged due to overheating, and I mean the diodes not the lenses these have been changed twice. I hypothesise that it could be due to a significant change in spectrum, not sure if the spectrum is now missing something or has shifted away from optimum levels? Anybody else using older or damaged lights?

Anecdotally, my experience has been the opposite when I had it going on in a previous tank (so it sure could be multifactorial). I was running T5s the entire time and the bubbling didn't start until I introduced a specific acro that had the bubbling to begin with (then spread). My lighting never changed in this tank.

 

[Reefer Dan]

Anecdotally, my experience has been the opposite when I had it going on in a previous tank (so it sure could be multifactorial). I was running T5s the entire time and the bubbling didn't start until I introduced a specific acro that had the bubbling to begin with (then spread). My lighting never changed in this tank.

Interesting, this is helpful. I did send an ICP today and I’m awaiting results to try and rule out water chemistry. I’m just struggling to think it’s bacterial or viral. Not saying its not a possibility— I’ve looked at a ton of research on growth anomalies in acros and haven’t found anything that looks like this.

So my theories are —lighting, allelopathy, or water chemistry.. can’t really test much of this. Allelopathy is unlikely because I think we would see that more.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Interesting, this is helpful. I did send an ICP today and I’m awaiting results to try and rule out water chemistry. I’m just struggling to think it’s bacterial or viral. Not saying its not a possibility— I’ve looked at a ton of research on growth anomalies in acros and haven’t found anything that looks like this.

So my theories are —lighting, allelopathy, or water chemistry.. can’t really test much of this. Allelopathy is unlikely because I think we would see that more.

100% not lighting. If you moved the Acro to another system (separate water and everything, not connected to original tank) it's bacterial or other pathogen.

Sounds like it's time for a course of Cipro.

 

[justy]

100% not lighting. If you moved the Acro to another system (separate water and everything, not connected to original tank) it's bacterial or other pathogen.

Sounds like it's time for a course of Cipro.

They have recovered in the other two tanks, so my thinking is that if it is a pathogen how can it recover? I was thinking it had to be environmental as that is what has changed.

 

[Reefer Dan]

They have recovered in the other two tanks, so my thinking is that if it is a pathogen how can it recover? I was thinking it had to be environmental as that is what has changed.

This is my thoughts also justy.. to @Hurricane Aquatics’s point. If you changed everything and it still persists (and you would expect it to infect the new system) then it would likely be a pathogen. Going along with this train of thought, why would this be a rare (albeit seems to becoming more frequent) occurrence that there are no research articles on?

The earliest on forums i was able to find on this was around 2015ish, which if memory serves me right is when LEDs were gaining traction. This is why I am considering lighting as a possibility

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

They have recovered in the other two tanks, so my thinking is that if it is a pathogen how can it recover? I was thinking it had to be environmental as that is what has changed.

That's possible it could be a rogue heater leaking electricity or pump rusting, etc. But bubbling seems bacterial.

Don't forget, bacteria doesn't have to reside on the Coral itself. The Coral could be reacting to exposure to that bacteria.

But yes, you make a good point and it is entirely possible. It's just definitely not the lighting or all corals would be blistering most likely.

 

[justy]

That's possible it could be a rogue heater leaking electricity or pump rusting, etc. But bubbling seems bacterial.

Don't forget, bacteria doesn't have to reside on the Coral itself. The Coral could be reacting to exposure to that bacteria.

But yes, you make a good point and it is entirely possible. It's just definitely not the lighting or all corals would be blistering most likely.

I have grown out several systems over the years, this current system has been up and running onecand a half years, by now it should be growing well. Although it's mainly the more sensitive corals that have blistering, all corals in the tank are growing slowly, and I know this as, as I have said I have a lot of experience, and what ever this is its affecting all corals to a greater or lesser degree. I have taken my damaged hydras off and put on an old halide I have knocking around. This was two days ago, I will report back if there is any improvement.
Thanks everyone.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I have grown out several systems over the years, this current system has been up and running onecand a half years, by now it should be growing well. Although it's mainly the more sensitive corals that have blistering, all corals in the tank are growing slowly, and I know this as, as I have said I have a lot of experience, and what ever this is its affecting all corals to a greater or lesser degree. I have taken my damaged hydras off and put on an old halide I have knocking around. This was two days ago, I will report back if there is any improvement.
Thanks everyone.

I'm going to make a prediction. If you have at least 250w halides and good coverage, not just one fixture, you're definitely going to see a change.

I haven't posted this get, but I have a very valid theory that the reason Acros do better under Halides is that they destroy some bacteria strain that causes harm to the Acros.

LEDs can't produce the output of halides so you see this in LED usage. I'm VERY interested to see if it turns around after a week or two. Keep me posted.

 

[justy]

I'm going to make a prediction. If you have at least 250w halides and good coverage, not just one fixture, you're definitely going to see a change.

I haven't posted this get, but I have a very valid theory that the reason Acros do better under Halides is that they destroy some bacteria strain that causes harm to the Acros.

LEDs can't produce the output of halides so you see this in LED usage. I'm VERY interested to see if it turns around after a week or two. Keep me posted.

Thanks, unfortunately it's only a 150 Watts, but it is over a 30inc cube so if I do see an improvement it may take longer, I will definitely update, thanks.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Thanks, unfortunately it's only a 150 Watts, but it is over a 30inc cube so if I do see an improvement it may take longer, I will definitely update, thanks.

@justy the 150w will be fine with that size of tank. Looking forward to seeing the results and most importantly, looking forward to your Acros getting healthy.