Busted!!! For Illegal Live Rock Collection/Sales

Discussion in 'Reef Aquarium Discussion' started by d2mini, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. ourcoralreef

    ourcoralreef Well-Known Member

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    No they probably only let you put rock thats not native to Florida

    He probably got caught because someone realized that the rock could not have been planted and then they started a investigation
     

  2. squareriggersailor

    squareriggersailor Well-Known Member

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    Dale did have some nice rock, now we know why.
     
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  3. d2mini

    d2mini Moderator Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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  4. SciGuy2

    SciGuy2 Active Member

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  5. squareriggersailor

    squareriggersailor Well-Known Member

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    Tropicorium poached American alligators, wow :(
     
  6. MTBake

    MTBake Active Member R2R Supporter

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    Wondering the same thing. Thinking about an order through them. Anyone know if gulfliverock is legit?
     
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  7. chipmunkofdoom2

    chipmunkofdoom2 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor

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    +1, the fine was way too small. This is pretty systemic though. We create rules for businesses, then slap their wrists when they're caught outright violating them.

    In 2016, the EU fined Google $2.7 billion for anti-competitive practices. Google's balance sheet cashflows were around $90 billion at the time. That's about 3% of Google's cash flow for that year. How does that deter anyone from doing shady business dealings? If you were a business owner, would you pay 3% of your cashflow to buy a monopoly on your market?

    To put it in perspective, let's suppose you want to park in a parking space. But, the space has a parking meter, and it costs $100 to park there. You notice in the small print that the fine for not paying the $100 fee is $3. What would you do? You'd be stupid to pay the $100 fee when the fine for not paying is only $3.
     
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  8. squareriggersailor

    squareriggersailor Well-Known Member

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    Parking tickets are cheap in Baltimore.
     
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  9. Cory

    Cory Valuable Member R2R Supporter Article Contributor

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    He had his licences to make aquacultured live rock, but was found taking rock that was not placed by him.

    I think all rock should be stamped or burned aquacultured
     
  10. Heliarc19

    Heliarc19 Active Member

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    Something to be able to check AFTER it’s removed would be a good idea
     
  11. Cory

    Cory Valuable Member R2R Supporter Article Contributor

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    Yes i see your point. Now they need some goverment person to go down with them.

    Or dont let them aquaculture rock near natural live rock.
     
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  12. NY_Caveman

    NY_Caveman Cave Dweller R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    The problem is if this gets found to be widespread, the government will likely just take the easy route and stop issuing aquaculture permits to all businesses including the ones who were legitimate. Between this and the back and forth on the Fiji ban, I worry about the fate of quality live rock in general.

    I also wonder how recent hurricanes in Florida and the gulf have contributed to illegal gathering. We know a few were hit hard and some aquaculture farms were wiped out. To stay in business, have some otherwise legitimate operations considered straying into natural live rock to keep their business afloat? Not pointing any fingers or trying to create rumors or speculation, but when one's livelihood is on the line who knows what any of us would really do.
     
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  13. NY_Caveman

    NY_Caveman Cave Dweller R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I will add that I feel for companies like TBSW, KP, ARCReef, GulfLiveRock, etc. They are in a position it seems where they may need to defend their highly regulated practices, even if they have maintained legal and legitimate practices all along, because of an unscrupulous player.
     
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  14. ourcoralreef

    ourcoralreef Well-Known Member

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    Or rock that is not native to Florida
     
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  15. Cory

    Cory Valuable Member R2R Supporter Article Contributor

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    Thats an easy way to identify for sure. But would probably increase the cost since it has to be imported.
     
  16. VR28man

    VR28man Active Member R2R Supporter Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Tbs does that, using walt smith’s artificial rock. Imo that’s an advantage because it’s easier to ‘scape.

    That being said, if u wanna differentiate quarried rock by its source, it’s probably very difficult - certainly impractical, maybe impossible - to tell where it came from. Especially if it’s been in the sea a few years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  17. liverock

    liverock Member

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    Used to be true...but now the Feds are up on their game, and have qualified scientific types that are doing analysis on live rock that is being transported in and out of state to determine origin.
     
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  18. VR28man

    VR28man Active Member R2R Supporter Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks, Rich! It's sad that these scofflaws force the taxpayer to have to do this. I can't imagine it's cheap. (though, of course, your WS 2.1 rock should be easy to ID as aquacultured. :D :D )

    As an aside, the FWS press release is interesting; Barger/FLR harvested 3,600lbs of aquacultured rock in 7 months, and 15,000 of (I presume their meaning is poached wild) LR from federal waters during the same period. (18,000 gallons of aquaria; or if the cross-hobby average tank is 75 gallons, 240 customers). So, if someone got some rock form him recently, like 80% of it was actually wild.

    Very very egregious violation. I think he got off rather lightly, but I'd imagine it was a plea bargain.
     
  19. A Toadstool Leather

    A Toadstool Leather Well-Known Member

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    I cannot stand poaching. Thank goodness for aquaculture. Not that collecting is bad or anything.
     
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