Butterfly bloated stomach.

[iReefer12]

Oh ohhh I caught him tonight and tried to do this procedure using a sewing needle. Didn't go well, I expected it to deflate like a football being pierced but it didn't do anything. I think I needed a syringe so I could pull back but I'm confused, maybe I didn't hit the right spot.

I was nervous about having him out of the water that long too, so I was freaking out a bit and tried to be quick.

I added him back and he played dead for a bit and then swam away. I checked a bit later, and it looked like he was swimming better but then he went back to swimming head down and having a hard time of it.

Man it's totally stressful, I couldn't be a doctor. The worst part of it is trying to catch him without stressing the whole tank out.

Will see what he's like tomorrow. Thinking of buying an actual needle. Will this one on Amazon work?


Pack of 10 x 1 ml Industrial Syringes with 18G x 1-1/2" Blunt Tip Fill Needle and plastic cover https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NDETMR2/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_MMYNvb8CHSQAM

 

[Humblefish]

That should work. To be clear, this procedure will only help is he has air trapped inside his swim bladder. That is one possible explanation for the symptoms you are seeing... but not the only one.

 

[iReefer12]

Still swimming today. No change in condition, no worse, no better.

I'm 90% certain its the swim bladder, the way he tirelessly swims down but the moment he stops he rises quickly in the water column.

Sorta thinking I'm gonna leave him for a few weeks and see what happens, don't want to stress him again so soon.

Will keep you posted

 

[iReefer12]

After what you said @Humblefish about it possibly being something other than swim bladder disorder, I decided to add some more pictures and a video, maybe this will help to confirm or deny whether it is swim bladder.

Let me know your thoughts, I'm trying to make a fish trap so when I do decide to act and try to cure him I can catch him easier without stressing him as much - any tips for this is much appreciated - I've seen the 2l bottle trap and I've also seen the fish bowl method, which one do you prefer?

So here's the pics and video, I took while he was eating at the nori clip and tried to get pictures showing the bloated ness from underneath.

 

[Humblefish]

@iReefer12 The thing about swim bladder issues is they are usually encountered in recently acquired deep water species which were not properly decompressed. However, I have seen similar symptoms in established fish - especially older clownfish. I don't think enough research has been done to know if "swim bladder disorder" in older fish is commonly associated with air getting trapped or some other issue going on with a fish's swim bladder. I've seen evidence of both.

Looking at the video of your butterfly, it does look like classic swim bladder disorder to me. And I think in the end, needling is going to be your only option to possibly "cure" him of this. However, I have done successful needling on fish only to see the exact same symptoms return a few weeks or months later. :(

Below is the fish trap I use (stole the idea and photos from someone on RC ;)). All you need is eggcrate, zip ties, and fishing line to build it:

 

[iReefer12]

That's tough to hear, I have to give needling him a shot, hopefully I can do it right and get lucky that it cures him.

This fish did have Popeye when I first got him, quite bad, had to use kanamycin or erythromycin can't remember which one, but it cleared up, and then he went in the display and has been fine since, until now. I think I read somewhere that Popeye and Dropsy is somewhat linked? Could this be dropsy?

That fish trap looks awesome, have some egg crate so will give building it a shot.

Any chance you could take the picture here or find one of a mitratus online and put a circle around where I'm supposed to insert the needle, for swim bladder? I was looking at diagrams of swim bladders on fish and it looks quite high up and not a big area, so I just want to make sure I get this right.

 

[Humblefish]

This fish did have Popeye when I first got him, quite bad, had to use kanamycin or erythromycin can't remember which one, but it cleared up, and then he went in the display and has been fine since, until now. I think I read somewhere that Popeye and Dropsy is somewhat linked? Could this be dropsy?

"Dropsy" is more of a FW thing, and in most cases describes a symptom (bloated looking stomach) than any specific disease. It can be caused by kidney failure, renal failure, swim bladder disorder, a bacterial disease or even Hexamita. I hadn't considered Hexamita... seen any stringy white poop coming out of him?

Any chance you could take the picture here or find one of a mitratus online and put a circle around where I'm supposed to insert the needle, for swim bladder? I was looking at diagrams of swim bladders on fish and it looks quite high up and not a big area, so I just want to make sure I get this right.

Best option is to go here and download the full text pdf: http://csi.whoi.edu/content/laterop...flyfishes-genus-chaetodon-perciformes-chaetod

Scroll down until you see the X-ray showing the swim bladder of a Chaetodon on page 1349.

 

[iReefer12]

No stringy white poop. Every time I've seen him go over the past month it's been brown and not stringy.

 

[iReefer12]

That's a great resource. Thanks humblefish!

 

[Cleo642]

That's a great resource. Thanks humblefish!

Did the fish make it? Is it better now? I am just wondering, been following this.

 

[iReefer12]

He's still swimming, and still has the same issue. I wanted to allow him some time to recover from the first attempt before I try anything else.

His condition is very stable it seems, he's in otherwise great condition, eats like a champ and looks like happy.

 

[Cleo642]

He's still swimming, and still has the same issue. I wanted to allow him some time to recover from the first attempt before I try anything else.

His condition is very stable it seems, he's in otherwise great condition, eats like a champ and looks like happy.

That's good news, as long as he is eating and happy.

 

[iReefer12]

I built the fish trap, thanks humble fish for the idea, it should work well. I could have caught any of my fish apart from the mitratus in the first 24hrs.

I plan on trying to catch him and attempt to vent the swim bladder, he has looked much worse the past 3 days so it's now or never. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Humblefish]

Don't know if the person has already contacted you, but here's someone to commiserate with: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/swim-bladder-issue.207541/

 

[iReefer12]

I finally caught him today. It took him a while to get comfortable with the fish trap. But it worked like a charm. The trap door functioned so smoothly he didn't even realize it had closed until after the fact.

Ive located a veterinarian in the area that actually deals with fish, I went and met with them earlier this week to make sure they could do this.

He's now in my hospital tank, but he's not looking so hot, looks like the added stress has made it harder for him to control his buoyancy.

For the past 5 days in the display tank he's been spending most of his time resting under rock ledges so I knew it was not looking good, I think resting up against the Rock has given him some small wounds and perhaps a secondary bacteria infection of some kind so I've treated the HT with some NitroFuracin Green to help that.

He's now resting under a piece of PVC pipe in the HT.

If he makes it through the night, he's going to the vet to get checked out and see if we can do anything about this.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Cleo642]

I finally caught him today. It took him a while to get comfortable with the fish trap. But it worked like a charm. The trap door functioned so smoothly he didn't even realize it had closed until after the fact.

Ive located a veterinarian in the area that actually deals with fish, I went and met with them earlier this week to make sure they could do this.

He's now in my hospital tank, but he's not looking so hot, looks like the added stress has made it harder for him to control his buoyancy.

For the past 5 days in the display tank he's been spending most of his time resting under rock ledges so I knew it was not looking good, I think resting up against the Rock has given him some small wounds and perhaps a secondary bacteria infection of some kind so I've treated the HT with some NitroFuracin Green to help that.

He's now resting under a piece of PVC pipe in the HT.

If he makes it through the night, he's going to the vet to get checked out and see if we can do anything about this.

Fingers crossed.

I am praying for the little guy. Poor baby.

 

[iReefer12]

I've literally never seen a fish with this much fight.

I tried Snuba Diving in the winter and I'm a quite tall and they didn't add enough ballast to help me sink (probably for health and safety reason) so it was impossible to stay below the surface, a constant struggle to swim down, It was exhausting!

So I feel like I know what he's dealing with, albeit for me it was only 30 mins of my life and wasn't life or death.

He looks to be calming down now, even ate a live blackworm I threw in. We'll see

 

[Cleo642]

I've literally never seen a fish with this much fight.

I tried Snuba Diving in the winter and I'm a quite tall and they didn't add enough ballast to help me sink (probably for health and safety reason) so it was impossible to stay below the surface, a constant struggle to swim down, It was exhausting!

So I feel like I know what he's dealing with, albeit for me it was only 30 mins of my life and wasn't life or death.

He looks to be calming down now, even ate a live blackworm I threw in. We'll see

Poor baby, he is gonna make it. He is a survivor.

 

[Humblefish]

Good luck @iReefer12. I know the distress you're feeling right now. Been there many times with many beloved fish over the years. Just know whatever happens, you've given your absolute best effort for this fish. :)

 

[Cleo642]

I've literally never seen a fish with this much fight.

I tried Snuba Diving in the winter and I'm a quite tall and they didn't add enough ballast to help me sink (probably for health and safety reason) so it was impossible to stay below the surface, a constant struggle to swim down, It was exhausting!

So I feel like I know what he's dealing with, albeit for me it was only 30 mins of my life and wasn't life or death.

He looks to be calming down now, even ate a live blackworm I threw in. We'll see

On another note, I you have a trigger in your tank? Is it a blue throat?
Do the angels, butterfly fish, etc. Pick on your corals?