Buying quarantined fish...

[lostgaurd]

My personal system is that I just have a collection of empty tanks and they are what I need them to be. Some people have dedicated permanent observation tanks, which makes maintaining water quality and feeding difficult/shy fish easier. I just dont have the space for that as I would rather use it to operate a fishless invert tank to fallow/QT inverts in before adding them to the DT.

So you don't necessarily *need* to have an entirely separate observation system although many people find that helpful. The distinction for me is generally whether I am just running medications prophylactically or not

how do you set up your QT inverts tank? just a bare bottom tank, and some PVC pipes, for about 2/4 weeks? to make sure no ich or velvet survives?

 

[lostgaurd]

I’m a wrasse lover and Leopards are my favorite - I currently have 2 Leopards and 3 other wrasse. I’ve never had an issue with internal parasites. @Dr. Reef puts them through a complete quarantine treatment process, longer than 14 days, then an observation period afterwards (so be prepared to wait, and wait). You do not need to re-quarantine them. It is definitely worth the extra cost. There is no guarantee that they could not develop internal parasites afterwards from other fish though.

Having said that, I do not recommend adding them to a newly established tank. The biome is not yet fully developed, nor is the pod population, and water parameters are not yet stable. 6 months would be the minimum time I recommend.

They are not a feed-twice-a-day-and-forget fish. Their metabolic rate is set for grazing all day so a heavy pod population is a must. DRF makes sure they are healthy eaters before shipping. The ones I purchased from them were even eating pellet and flaked food, which is rare for most leopards, but that is just to supplement their normal pod diet.

LOTS of matured live rock is a must for them to graze. In fact, a refugium is also a must unless you are cultivating your own pods. Restocking pods will get very costly otherwise. They require a minimum of a 3” fine-grain mature sand bed (6+ months). Some people just keep a small area of the tank deeper, but sand moves overtime, so that is not something I recommend. It also seems cruel to me - like keeping a dog chained to a tree.

I hope this helps!

yup. that sounds great man, thank you so much for your info. i am def setting up a FUGE.
I would like to have at least 4-5 inch sand bed. Now when you say fine-grain, is that the same thing as Sugar-sized? a friend had a blue spotted jaw fish and that is what he used, and that sand got every where...?? he hated it for a while.
For the sand, can i mix some mid to small sand? like 60%mid and 30% small grain sand?

 

[cryingrn]

how do you set up your QT inverts tank? just a bare bottom tank, and some PVC pipes, for about 2/4 weeks? to make sure no ich or velvet survives?

My QT invert is setup like any other frag tank. The only distinction is that there are no fish in the system and it is in an entirely different part of the house to my tanks with fish.

I do not run any medication in that tank (minus an initial dip). They stay there 65 days past the last wet addition and at that point any obligate fish parasites would have starved (besides uronema but theoretically the dip would eradicate that). Also I wouldve been able to observe for coral diseases like euphyllia eating flatworms and the like.

A invert/coral QT is essentially run exactly like a reef tank except there are no fish, you share no equipment between this tank and any others, and it's at a minimum 10' from other tanks. Also- if you add a new coral halfway in between your fallow period the timer for the entire tank resets. It's an abundance of caution and not something strictly necessary

 

[lostgaurd]

they meant the list of vendors

thank you man, yeah i saw the list now <3

 

[jabberkaycee]

3” - 3 1/2” is a good depth. When you start getting to five or more inches, it becomes difficult to vacuum, and it can trap gases, which is very harmful and can also create dead spots.

Sugar-size sand is great to use. I have found when I tried to mix sand sizes, the finer grain goes to the bottom, and the coarser grain remains on top.

It sounds like you’re well on your way to a great setup! I’ll be following along and can’t wait to see how it turns out

 

[lostgaurd]

My QT invert is setup like any other frag tank. The only distinction is that there are no fish in the system and it is in an entirely different part of the house to my tanks with fish.

I do not run any medication in that tank (minus an initial dip). They stay there 65 days past the last wet addition and at that point any obligate fish parasites would have starved (besides uronema but theoretically the dip would eradicate that). Also I wouldve been able to observe for coral diseases like euphyllia eating flatworms and the like.

A invert/coral QT is essentially run exactly like a reef tank except there are no fish, you share no equipment between this tank and any others, and it's at a minimum 10' from other tanks. Also- if you add a new coral halfway in between your fallow period the timer for the entire tank resets. It's an abundance of caution and not something strictly necessary

i am spending 1000s of bucks on this tank... i think i will do the same. lol
what is the dip you use for the inverts?

 

[lostgaurd]

3” - 3 1/2” is a good depth. When you start getting to five or more inches, it becomes difficult to vacuum, and it can trap gases, which is very harmful and can also create dead spots.

Sugar-size sand is great to use. I have found when I tried to mix sand sizes, the finer grain goes to the bottom, and the coarser grain remains on top.

It sounds like you’re well on your way to a great setup! I’ll be following along and can’t wait to see how it turns out

thank you, yes but i also i read also you need 5 or so inches for jawfish... so, that is going to be my like 3rd fish in the tank or so....?

 

[56longroof]

If you want a honest assessment look at the approved vendors on Humblefish. The fanfare for the most mentioned one here is in my opinion extremely overhyped.

 

[mfinn]

my i ask what did you order?

Anthias, Royal Grammas, Flame Angel, Yellow Tangs, Orchid Dottybacks, Molly Miller Blennies.

 

[lostgaurd]

If you want a honest assessment look at the approved vendors on Humblefish. The fanfare for the most mentioned one here is in my opinion extremely overhyped.

just wondering why u saying it is overhyped?

 

[mfinn]

my i ask what did you order?

Oh and a Copper Banded Butterfly

 

[lostgaurd]

Oh and a Copper Banded Butterfly

saving the best for last eah?

 

[cryingrn]

just wondering why u saying it is overhyped?

The only quarantine i would put complete confidence in is the one you do yourself. I order from these vendors, and recommend them, but again it just takes one careless employee getting a single drop of water from point A to B for your quarantined fish to end up infecting your tank.

Once again, I just use these vendors as a better assurance that theyre healthy and because I dont want to personally work with some of the medications like formalin.

i am spending 1000s of bucks on this tank... i think i will do the same. lol
what is the dip you use for the inverts?

This all really depends on the exact invert. CoralDip and Iodine are generally what I go-to for corals (plus removing as much frag plug as possible helps). I do not do dips on anemones, echinoderms, gastropods, worms, etc. Just corals

 

[mfinn]

I can agree with cryingrn, and have done it myself for 25 years. I still have all my qt stuff, and could do it again. ( have to probably buy batteries for my copper checker.)
But last year I wanted to try out Dr. Reef and it worked out perfectly.
Completely being lazy.
Now that I have tried him, I probably won't be going back to doing it myself anytime soon.
There are a couple fish I want.

 

[mfinn]

saving the best for last eah?

I actually forgot until I walked past the tank and there he was begging for dinner ( early as usual)

 

[56longroof]

just wondering why u saying it is overhyped?

You pay a premium for quarantined fish. The ones I have been getting lately look awful. Sores on body,torn fins not to mention I tried to order a bonded pair of flame angels and maroon clowns. The angels were both males. 2 pair of the maroons ended up trying to kill each other the minute they were put together. No way they were bonded. There is more but that's the most of it. I will say they have replaced everything but the replacements are not any better. To be honest. I have better luck with fish straight from a wholesaler.

 

[lostgaurd]

The only quarantine i would put complete confidence in is the one you do yourself. I order from these vendors, and recommend them, but again it just takes one careless employee getting a single drop of water from point A to B for your quarantined fish to end up infecting your tank.

Once again, I just use these vendors as a better assurance that theyre healthy and because I dont want to personally work with some of the medications like formalin.



This all really depends on the exact invert. CoralDip and Iodine are generally what I go-to for corals (plus removing as much frag plug as possible helps). I do not do dips on anemones, echinoderms, gastropods, worms, etc. Just corals

would you dip your snails that you get? cause i think this is where things might screw up for me... is that, they are so expensive online, and local stores are fairly cheep, so i guess it is just easier to do the QT for your own snails....?

 

[lostgaurd]

You pay a premium for quarantined fish. The ones I have been getting lately look awful. Sores on body,torn fins not to mention I tried to order a bonded pair of flame angels and maroon clowns. The angels were both males. 2 pair of the maroons ended up trying to kill each other the minute they were put together. No way they were bonded. There is more but that's the most of it. I will say they have replaced everything but the replacements are not any better. To be honest. I have better luck with fish straight from a wholesaler.

That sounds awful. I agree with you, if you’re paying a premium for quarantined fish, you expect the fish to reflect that, not just because of the QT process itself, but also because you’d assume the overall level of care would be much higher.

At least if the seller is professional enough to replace fish when things go wrong, I guess that makes those missteps a little easier to deal with. Still, for the price, I’d definitely expect better.

 

[drdwl]

okay.... get your tomatoes ready.

New to the hobby, and been watching and reading a lot about quarantining fish. I don't have the skills, or the patience to do any of this... i am out... before i even start. kidding yall... just kidding.

So, back to the real deal. There are websites like Dr. Reef and Marine Collectors that sell fully Quarantined fish, which is GREAT. I honestly don’t mind paying extra for healthy fish and the peace of mind of not constantly worrying about introducing something like ich or velvet into the tank.

I’ve been doing as much research and reading as I can about wrasses, especially leopard wrasses and possum wrasses, and one thing that keeps coming up is internal parasites. I really want to make sure I get this part right.

From what I understand, internal parasites can sometimes take longer to deal with than something like a standard 14-day quarantine period. I’m guessing this is something I should probably call the quarantine vendor and ask specifically about: what medications they use, whether they treat for internal parasites, and how long the fish are actually observed.

I would really love to eventually have a leopard wrasse or a dwarf possum wrasse. Since wrasses, especially leopard wrasses, seem to have a reputation for coming in with internal parasites, would it still make sense to put them through my own quarantine afterward and treat with PraziPro/praziquantel or another internal parasite medication?

Or would that just be unnecessarily putting the fish through another round of stress and medication after paying an extra $200–$500 for professionals to quarantine and treat the fish properly in the first place?

Basically, if I’m buying from one of these quarantine vendors, should I trust their process and leave the fish alone once it arrives, assuming they’ve already treated for ich, velvet, flukes, and internal parasites? Or are wrasses one of those fish where you would still recommend additional observation or treatment at home?

For context, there isn’t even a tank yet. I’m planning either a 100-gallon or 150-gallon system. My old rock is currently going through a dark cycle, so I’m still very early in the process and have plenty of time to figure all of this out before buying any fish.

Basically it is a situation where fish get more susceptible to parasites and other diseases, when they are being transported (be it a few days or even a minute). The more time in transit, makes the susceptibility recovery time longer. So even if a company says quarantined fish, u need to ask, if it is for 30 days post-medication ( gold standard). Even if done right, i would still quarantine the fish once i get it, though getting such a fish would give u a higher chance of a successful acclimation, then those fish which has been stressed the whole time from collection to ur house.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

You pay a premium for quarantined fish. The ones I have been getting lately look awful. Sores on body,torn fins not to mention I tried to order a bonded pair of flame angels and maroon clowns. The angels were both males. 2 pair of the maroons ended up trying to kill each other the minute they were put together. No way they were bonded. There is more but that's the most of it. I will say they have replaced everything but the replacements are not any better. To be honest. I have better luck with fish straight from a wholesaler.

Can you please share any form of communication with
You where we promised you that the angels will be a pair (male and a female)

you ordered captive bred and captive bred fish are too young to assess gender.
So please I would like to see that communication where we promised you that it will be definitely a male and female angel pair.