Byron & Reneé's 465g reef - 700g+ total

[nvfishman]

Pretty nice fishroom and tank setup. In your refugium I would put egg crate under the rock and a few powerhead to blow detritus from settling. This time I just went with cheato only no rock as I have 400lbs in the main display. I put a ton of rock in my first fugium and was hard to clean it out. Nice that yours is above the ground and easier to siphon out

 

[Molli]

Smashing build thread, keep it coming please!

 

[revsgirl]

Your tank looks amazing!!

 

[WillKatt]

Miracles created 2 overflow boxes for me with 3 holes each -- with which I implemented dual Bean system. I've gotta get expert advice on this, because I've since decided the design does not function correctly (as intended by Herbie & Bean) when it has 2 compelte Bean's feeding into the same drain pipe... I'm still working that one, but I will admit I didn't do enough research here before I wigged out and did it. It works -- sort of -- by not as it should IMO. I don't get the siphons I want out of it. More on that later.

In retrospect, I probably should have had a single coast to coast wier overflow created, but I didn't.[/QUOTE]




First of all WOW! This is going to be one beautiful system. I'm so very jealous!

Unfortunatly you are correct that wont work as a "BeAnAnimal" realy in anyway as it currently is. Really each stand pipe should have had it own run back to the sump/fuge. The concept behind the BeAnAnimal is that you have a full siphone pipe, and "open channel" pipe, and the emergency pipe. The full siphon would be the pipe with the gate valve which would be adjusted so that it is barely under what the return pump is taking back to the display. This keeps the full siphon by always keeping the adjustable pipe under the water line in the overflow box. This is where the open channel comes in, it takes up the remainder of what the full siphon cannot. The combination of the two is what makes this method so quite.

The tube on the open channel that sits just between the open channel and the emergency over flow pipe is there to create a second full siphon with the open channel in the event that the water level in the overflow box begins to to rise thus cutting off the air supply on the open channel and creating the second siphon. The emergency overflow would only be there in the event that the open channel becoming a full siphon was still not enough and a third path was required.

Technicallyfor this design to work optimally you would need to remove the single manifold and run 6 separate lines to the sump/fuge. I suppose you could tie the corresponding pipes together i.e. open channel to open channel, etc and run them back to the sump with a pipe at least 1.5 times the size the stand pipes and you could reduce the number of runs. Or you could convert it to something more traditional by just making to return paths back to the sump but that would be a shame given what that tank is capable of doing with how its drilled. Your big problem here is you have everything going to one bottle neck and it s the same as just having a single 1.5" return back to the sump. Depending on the amount of flow you have cycling between the DT and the sump you should probably have two 1.5" drains going back to the sump IMO.

That SCH80 aint cheap and what I pain so I feel for ya there. That will be no fun. I aslo went with a 1.5" sch80 on my Beananimal and I know those gates valves are stupid expensive.

 

[mallorieGgator]

Wowzers! Looks amazing!

 

[byron]

Pretty nice fishroom and tank setup. In your refugium I would put egg crate under the rock and a few powerhead to blow detritus from settling. This time I just went with cheato only no rock as I have 400lbs in the main display. I put a ton of rock in my first fugium and was hard to clean it out. Nice that yours is above the ground and easier to siphon out

thanks for the advice... I was going to add sand into the refug as well -- would you leave that out as well??

 

[byron]

Smashing build thread, keep it coming please!

Your tank looks amazing!!

Wowzers! Looks amazing!

thanks for the kudos... it will eventually have some live stuff in it:bigsmile:

 

[byron]

First of all WOW! This is going to be one beautiful system. I'm so very jealous!

Unfortunatly you are correct that wont work as a "BeAnAnimal" realy in anyway as it currently is. Really each stand pipe should have had it own run back to the sump/fuge. The concept behind the BeAnAnimal is that you have a full siphone pipe, and "open channel" pipe, and the emergency pipe. The full siphon would be the pipe with the gate valve which would be adjusted so that it is barely under what the return pump is taking back to the display. This keeps the full siphon by always keeping the adjustable pipe under the water line in the overflow box. This is where the open channel comes in, it takes up the remainder of what the full siphon cannot. The combination of the two is what makes this method so quite.

The tube on the open channel that sits just between the open channel and the emergency over flow pipe is there to create a second full siphon with the open channel in the event that the water level in the overflow box begins to to rise thus cutting off the air supply on the open channel and creating the second siphon. The emergency overflow would only be there in the event that the open channel becoming a full siphon was still not enough and a third path was required.

Technicallyfor this design to work optimally you would need to remove the single manifold and run 6 separate lines to the sump/fuge. I suppose you could tie the corresponding pipes together i.e. open channel to open channel, etc and run them back to the sump with a pipe at least 1.5 times the size the stand pipes and you could reduce the number of runs. Or you could convert it to something more traditional by just making to return paths back to the sump but that would be a shame given what that tank is capable of doing with how its drilled. Your big problem here is you have everything going to one bottle neck and it s the same as just having a single 1.5" return back to the sump. Depending on the amount of flow you have cycling between the DT and the sump you should probably have two 1.5" drains going back to the sump IMO.

That SCH80 aint cheap and what I pain so I feel for ya there. That will be no fun. I aslo went with a 1.5" sch80 on my Beananimal and I know those gates valves are stupid expensive.

thanks for the input... I defintely need to tune this thing... the cost of sch 80 is not so much that this shouldn't be optimal.

If I split the two overflows and ran 1 to the sump and 1 to the refug, but still collected the output of the each 3 grouping into a 1 1/2" pipe, would that work any better?? Or does all 6 pipes need to be separate 1 1/2" feeds??

My problem is height for gravity feed. The current 1 1/2" pipe from the DT is only about 2" about the refug -- maybe not a good gravity drop?

Would better pictures help?

Again, thanks for taking the time to analyze this... As I just started, I had someone who was going to mentor the project, but that disolved and I just plodded ahead on my own... I should have stopped the project and enlisted another mentor I think :squigglemouth: I believe this is my current weakest link in the build.

 

[WillKatt]

thanks for the input... I defintely need to tune this thing... the cost of sch 80 is not so much that this shouldn't be optimal.

If I split the two overflows and ran 1 to the sump and 1 to the refug, but still collected the output of the each 3 grouping into a 1 1/2" pipe, would that work any better?? Or does all 6 pipes need to be separate 1 1/2" feeds??

My problem is height for gravity feed. The current 1 1/2" pipe from the DT is only about 2" about the refug -- maybe not a good gravity drop?

Would better pictures help?

Again, thanks for taking the time to analyze this... As I just started, I had someone who was going to mentor the project, but that disolved and I just plodded ahead on my own... I should have stopped the project and enlisted another mentor I think :squigglemouth: I believe this is my current weakest link in the build.

You may have already seen this but this of course is the best explanation of how it should work from BeAnAnimal himself. I am not very clear sometimes in my explanations.
BeanAnimal's Bar and Grill - Silent and Fail-Safe Overflow System

If I understand you correctly you are basically saying that you could disconnect the unions at each bank of 3 and just run one to the fuge and one to the sump? If so That would still not work at least not as a fully functional beananimal. The Reason is that you cannot have the full siphon and the open channel running into the same pipe because the full siphon requires a vacuum with no air getting into the intake of the drain. The open channel is the opposite its going to suck air in through that little white tube. Its the combination of the two that makes it so quite. The emergency overflow would be pointless to go into the same 1.5" line because that's only there for when the 1.5" pipes are not enough (very rare im guessing since your using 1.5" pipe). So yes really each one should have it own run back. That said I have never seen a duel beananimal and it might be actually harder to tune with two. That's not to say it wont work but it can be a little tricky to get one tuned and I have no idea what two will add to the mix.

When tuned correctly there is very low noise if any at all because there is no gurgling with a full siphon and the open channel is supposed to be quite because so little water flowing through it that the water can of cling the inner walls of the pipe there by leaving an unobstructed column of air all the way up the middle again little to no gurgle. Because these two concepts are so different they require separate pipes or runs back to the sump.

That little white tube should be tied or fastened inside of the overflow box just between the inlets of the open channel and the emergency overflow pipe. This is your first line of overflow prevention. In the event that the water level in the overflow box starts to rise it will eventually block the entrance of the little white tube preventing any air from getting inside and should then start another full siphon. This is another reason for having the second full run back to the sump. Besides being quite the hole point of this system is to allow the overflow to keep upping the ante in the event that something obstructs the main full siphon overflow, and even the second full siphon or if for some reason your return starts sending more water in the DT than the overflow can handle.

I'm sure the link I sent will give you everything you need and explain things so much better. I am still in the middle of my own build and will not pretend to know everything but this is one concept I have allot of experience with and understand very well. If you ever just have a question feel free to PM me and id be happy to chat with you about it in person. If you have an ipod or ipad we can even do a face time session and I can show you first hand, but like I said once you read that link you'll be set.

 

[byron]

You may have already seen this but this of course is the best explanation of how it should work from BeAnAnimal himself. I am not very clear sometimes in my explanations.
BeanAnimal's Bar and Grill - Silent and Fail-Safe Overflow System

If I understand you correctly you are basically saying that you could disconnect the unions at each bank of 3 and just run one to the fuge and one to the sump? If so That would still not work at least not as a fully functional beananimal. The Reason is that you cannot have the full siphon and the open channel running into the same pipe because the full siphon requires a vacuum with no air getting into the intake of the drain. The open channel is the opposite its going to suck air in through that little white tube. Its the combination of the two that makes it so quite. The emergency overflow would be pointless to go into the same 1.5" line because that's only there for when the 1.5" pipes are not enough (very rare im guessing since your using 1.5" pipe). So yes really each one should have it own run back. That said I have never seen a duel beananimal and it might be actually harder to tune with two. That's not to say it wont work but it can be a little tricky to get one tuned and I have no idea what two will add to the mix.

When tuned correctly there is very low noise if any at all because there is no gurgling with a full siphon and the open channel is supposed to be quite because so little water flowing through it that the water can of cling the inner walls of the pipe there by leaving an unobstructed column of air all the way up the middle again little to no gurgle. Because these two concepts are so different they require separate pipes or runs back to the sump.

That little white tube should be tied or fastened inside of the overflow box just between the inlets of the open channel and the emergency overflow pipe. This is your first line of overflow prevention. In the event that the water level in the overflow box starts to rise it will eventually block the entrance of the little white tube preventing any air from getting inside and should then start another full siphon. This is another reason for having the second full run back to the sump. Besides being quite the hole point of this system is to allow the overflow to keep upping the ante in the event that something obstructs the main full siphon overflow, and even the second full siphon or if for some reason your return starts sending more water in the DT than the overflow can handle.

I'm sure the link I sent will give you everything you need and explain things so much better. I am still in the middle of my own build and will not pretend to know everything but this is one concept I have allot of experience with and understand very well. If you ever just have a question feel free to PM me and id be happy to chat with you about it in person. If you have an ipod or ipad we can even do a face time session and I can show you first hand, but like I said once you read that link you'll be set.

I have read that piece many times... and believed that I was implementing the priciples of it, but...

I also looked at many images of others who had (attempted to) implemented the design, many of whom where tieing at least the siphon and open channel together below the gate on the siphon standpipe. I didnt see anyone else attempting to join multiple overflow boxes -- I wigged out on my own there. One thing that drove me to tieing them all together was a lack of understaning of the principles and another was that I only had 2" of drop to the refugium. One thing I missed was having the airline inside the overflow to seal off during a rising condition.

I have no training in fluid dynamics or even mechanical engineering principles -- I'm software and electronic engineer -- I worked in millivolts & microvolts and kept things dry.

Thanks for your follow up description. I now need to go back and noodle through how I can move to a design which correctly embraces the principles while requiring the minimum of mods and works within my available 2" drop.

All continued feedback is welcome.

 

[WillKatt]

Interesting, I wont say for sure one could not tie the full siphon and open channel to the same pipe, I personally have never seen it done but that doesn't mean it hasn't I would think the connecting pipe would then have to be at least 1 and a half times if not two time larger than the individual stand pipes.

Checkout this guys build page 4 post 76. I hope you don't mind I added both the link and the IMG codes and text. Like mine there are three separate runs.

Mike's 140 Cubish Build - Page 4 - Reef Central Online Community



Plumbing is in place.

I'm using a drain system per Beanimal's thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1). This thing took nearly 2,000 gph without making a sound using 1" lines.

 

[byron]

...I would think the connecting pipe would then have to be at least 1 and a half times if not two time larger than the individual stand pipes.

with that in mind, I'm wondering if going to a 2 1/2" or 3" pipe beyond a collection point would be effectrvely the same as separate pipes??

I may go back and run all separates pipes, just trying to work through options...

 

[WillKatt]

Yeah hopefully some others will lend their thoughts. I know there are some really smart people here that could steer you better than I. I am tempted to suggest reconfiguring the plumbing like this tying the like components from each overflow together and eliminating one gate valve and just using one on for the pipes marked with green. I really think you are only going to want one gate valve for tuning rather than two. However there may be a better way and i hope someone here will speak up if they know of one.

The other option would be to just ditch the whole bean animal idea and just run a single durso out of each overflow.

Please get some other opinions before trying what I have below. This is just me trying to brainstorm with ya.

 

[byron]

Yeah hopefully some others will lend their thoughts. I know there are some really smart people here that could steer you better than I. I am tempted to suggest reconfiguring the plumbing like this tying the like components from each overflow together and eliminating one gate valve and just using one on for the pipes marked with green. I really think you are only going to want one gate valve for tuning rather than two. However there may be a better way and i hope someone here will speak up if they know of one.

The other option would be to just ditch the whole bean animal idea and just run a single durso out of each overflow.

Please get some other opinions before trying what I have below. This is just me trying to brainstorm with ya.

thanks... I appreciate your putting brain waves on it.

 

[tiag]

You really should have gates on both full siphons to control the flow properly. You don't have much drop so you'll probably end up with them almost all the way open.

That is an AMAZING undertaking for someone with little experience. Wne you get done you'll not only be an expert engineer, but at expert aquarist! And you sir have done an amazing job so far. Too bad you're not doing this in Houston as I'd love to see this in person.

 

[byron]

You really should have gates on both full siphons to control the flow properly. You don't have much drop so you'll probably end up with them almost all the way open.

That is an AMAZING undertaking for someone with little experience. Wne you get done you'll not only be an expert engineer, but at expert aquarist! And you sir have done an amazing job so far. Too bad you're not doing this in Houston as I'd love to see this in person.

thanks for the tips... btw, I lived in Spring (on Willowcreek GC) when I had my last tank - small world. Left there in '06.

 

[byron]

on the DT drain: the original design was to have one overflow go to the refugium -- which would gravity fee to the sump, and one overflow to go directly to the sump.

Once I saw that the vertical drop was minimal from the DT to the refugium and space was tight, in my infinite wisdom I decided to merely create a manifold collecting all standpipes and feed them together (may have been alcohol involved the that brilliant decision). So I'm now thinking that I should split the two and go back to the original intent. Beyond that, I'm still noodling the optimal solution.

Could the emergency 1 1/2" standpipe in both come together and feed to the sump? If yes, would the combo pipe then be OK at 1 1/2" or should it be 2"?

 

[WillKatt]

on the DT drain: the original design was to have one overflow go to the refugium -- which would gravity fee to the sump, and one overflow to go directly to the sump.

Once I saw that the vertical drop was minimal from the DT to the refugium and space was tight, in my infinite wisdom I decided to merely create a manifold collecting all standpipes and feed them together (may have been alcohol involved the that brilliant decision). So I'm now thinking that I should split the two and go back to the original intent. Beyond that, I'm still noodling the optimal solution.

Could the emergency 1 1/2" standpipe in both come together and feed to the sump? If yes, would the combo pipe then be OK at 1 1/2" or should it be 2"?

I see no reason why you couldn't combine those is to a single 1.5" of course 2" could handle more but I don't think you should need to do that.

 

[byron]

back to other components:
I believe I have mentioned that we live out in the sticks on 24ac. We have already lost electrical power twice since I have started bringing up the system -- once during a storm, and the the other time, who knows why?? While I did build in the ability to cut over to a permanent generator when we built the house, that generator is not installed yet -- but I have a convoluted process to bring the whole house up on a 13KW portable generator. Anyway, because of that power loss issue, I decided to add battery backup to the Vortech MP40 units. The 2 on the left connect of one Ecotech backup battery and the two on the right connect to another. With the wave pumps running, we should be fine for at least 4 hrs until the local Ben Franklin crews gets power restored -- and we always have the backup generator if actually needed regardless.

btw, the Vortech controllers are mounted high because they require no human interaction -- they are driven by an Apex WXM.

Also, I put the Apex on a separate 12v power supply so I can then put the EB8's & EB4's on UPS and know the status of each device during power failure episodes.

right side MP40 contoller setup

left side MP40 contro;ller setup

On getting whole house power from a generator: Since your utility company will frown on this, and since it may not be legal in your area, I am not advocating this, merely describing it...

You must have the abilty to take your house off of the grid - and you must take it off of the grid before proceeding!!!!. This step can not be bypassed. Once you disconnect from the grid, you can backfeed a portable generator into you house through a 220V plug such as you dryer plug -- that will hit both 120V legs of a 2 phase system. I suggest that you first may want to turn off all circuit breakers in your panel. Once the generator is connected and running, turn on the breaker to the outlet where you connected the generator -- that brings power to your house. Then turn on breakers to outlets where your need power during the outage. I have a 220V welder plug in the garage which would make an ideal location to backfeed a generator into the house -- not that I would ever actually do that, just describing it...

If this does not make complete sense to you, then do not attempt it. Messing with high voltage devices may cause loss of life, which despite the beliefs of some fringe groups, is generally accepted to be an irreversible condition.

 

[byron]

We got our shipment of snails in from ReefCleaners this evening and they are now in the DT... interesting process. The couple of snails we had in there now have over three hundred friends and neighbors.

ReefCleaners ships USPS Express mail -- which is overnight to many locations, but not all -- depending on zip code. When you live out in the sticks like we do, "overnight" actually means "over 2 nights" to USPS.

ReefCleaners shipped yesterday afternoon which meant we would get the package tomorrow sometime, but... I stopped by the post office this afternoon and told the postmaster that we had a shipment of livestock coming for the aquarium and if it came in on the nightly inbound/outbound truck would she mind calling me. "No problem, Byron. Hope it makes it."

The PO closes at 5p, the truck comes at 5:30p. I get a call at 5:35p, "it's here, just come around back and shout." My studio is only 2 blocks away, so I quickly zip over, collect my snails and head home. They are now all in the aquarium after getting a 1 day reprieve...

Living in the sticks has its draw backs -- and its advantages :bigsmile: (if we had a couple of live births in the last couple days, our population may be up to 900).