CA and DKH will not rise no matter what

[blazin'reefer]

Hello r2r members, i have a 55 gallon tank that i cannot seem to raise calcium or alkalinity no matter what i do and its starting to hurt my head and possibly my tank trying, I have tried dosing various amounts and frequencies of kalk trying to figure out how much (i know stupid) with zero change to alk or calcium and just corals looking ticked off. I have also tried baking soda and calcium carbonate, again zero change.

I thought it was my old test kits at first like 5 months ago so i ordered a new api reefmaster set and to my surprise the exact same results with the newer test kits. I do not have a magnesium test but recently thought maybe it had to be low mag so i stupidly added about 2tsp per 20 gallons of epsom salts without testing as a one time thing just to see if i could increase ca or alk after and again no change. The levels they are currently staying at according to the test kits are ca-360 dkh-7. I am hoping to get them to 400 and 8, is it possible that the newer kits are bad too and giving me the same exact result as my old test? Or why can i not raise them no matter what i try? Thanks for any help.

 

[Genetics]

How is your tank stocked and how much is your highest dose of calcium and alk? Also what is your pH?

 

[DanyL]

Generally you do need to keep all 3 elements in check, or else you won't be able to control your parameters.
This means checking Mg and dosing it accordingly, together with Sodium Bicarbonate and Calcium Chloride.

While some API test kits are fine to use, others aren't as reliable as those produced by Salifert and Red Sea, you may want to read some reviews and decide for yourself.

Another point to take into account is that while some people do throw powders straight into their tanks, it is advised to prepare RODI based solutions with measured amounts, they will dissolve better when dosed into the tank in this form and allow more precise dosage. I suggest following one of Randy Holmes recipes.

Also, please share some more information about your system like type of rocks, live stock and age.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Thanks for the reply, I would say medium stocked currently. For fish i have like 5 various damsels, 1 chocolate tang, 1 watchman goby, 1 green clown goby. For corals i have about 10-15 small to medium sized corals soft coral,lps and sps. I had this same issue before i had barely any corals aswell too though.

For the kalk i have tried anywhere from 1/4 tsp per gallon up to around either 1 or 1.5tsp per gallon and both seemed to do absolutely nothing but make stuff mad. For the baking soda and calcium carbonate i tried as much as it said it took to raise 50 gallons by 1dkh on google, i think it was like 1 tsp baking soda and for the calcium i believe i tried like 10-20ml.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Generally you do need to keep all 3 elements in check, or else you won't be able to control your parameters.
This means checking Mg and dosing it accordingly, together with Sodium Bicarbonate and Calcium Chloride.

While some API test kits are fine to use, others aren't as reliable as those produced by Salifert and Red Sea, you may want to read some reviews and decide for yourself.

Another point to take into account is that while some people do throw powders straight into their tanks, it is advised to prepare RODI based solutions with measured amounts, they will dissolve better when dosed into the tank in this form and allow more precise dosage. I suggest following one of Randy Holmes recipes.

Also, please share some more information about your system like type of rocks, live stock and age.

Thanks, I do plan on getting a mag test soon and i will start testing all 3.

I have heard that about api but i did use the first set for like a year or 2 without many issues but I may look into changing brands maybe if that is what my issues seem to be coming from.

Yes i forgot to mention all powders were mixed into ro first and not added dirrectly to the tank. I will take a look at some of the recipes, do you happen to have a link or know where i should look?

I posted in my last message about the livestock, The tank is going on 3 or 4 years, havent ever really had much luck with corals. The ph has been low every single time i checked however i have not tested ph in a couple months cause it was causing me stress but i believe the last time i checked it got to like 7.9-8 at the peak. My nitrates have always been high aswell and phosphate low, but i seem to be finally lowering them a bit carbon dosing and am up to about 50ml of vinnegar per day, wether thats relevant or not im not sure.

 

[Uncle99]

MG must be 1350-1450ppm stable or you’ll get false readings of both ALK and CA.

 

[Genetics]

That is the right amount of baking soda. Put the baking soda into RO water. Slowly add that water to an area with high current to help prevent precipitation.

I have a similar issue and find that healthy corals will chew through 2-part rather quickly. On my 28g I am using 70mL of each daily to keep somewhat level parameters. Still need to add in a weekly water change to help.

 

[DanyL]

Thanks, I do plan on getting a mag test soon and i will start testing all 3.

I have heard that about api but i did use the first set for like a year or 2 without many issues but I may look into changing brands maybe if that is what my issues seem to be coming from.

Yes i forgot to mention all powders were mixed into ro first and not added dirrectly to the tank. I will take a look at some of the recipes, do you happen to have a link or know where i should look?

I posted in my last message about the livestock, The tank is going on 3 or 4 years, havent ever really had much luck with corals. The ph has been low every single time i checked however i have not tested ph in a couple months cause it was causing me stress but i believe the last time i checked it got to like 7.9-8 at the peak. My nitrates have always been high aswell and phosphate low, but i seem to be finally lowering them a bit carbon dosing and am up to about 50ml of vinnegar per day, wether thats relevant or not im not sure.

Ok so the situation isn't as bad a I thought it was, it felt like your supplements are all over the place for a moment.
Keeping your Alk at 7dKH isn't bad, and while you do need to increase your Calcium, it isn't extremely low either.

My suspicion is that your Magnesium is probably depleted, and you'll most likely need to increase it quite a bit to get to acceptable levels, which in turn would influence your Alk and Ca, so getting a testing kit is most defiantly the right path going forward.

As for the usage of Kalk, while one can supplement both Alk and Ca with it, due to its low solubility it usually not enough, so I would use it solely to keep your ph in check.

Increasing any parameter in your tank should be done with caution, slowly and within the recommended max dosage per day which you can easily find with google, so is Randy Holmes recipes.

Also, where are your nutrients at?
Are your corals look healthy right now, if not were they always like that or is it something new?

 

[blazin'reefer]

MG must be 1350-1450ppm stable or you’ll get false readings of both ALK and CA.

interesting, i didnt know that. i just thought it had to be over 1200.

 

[blazin'reefer]

That is the right amount of baking soda. Put the baking soda into RO water. Slowly add that water to an area with high current to help prevent precipitation.

I have a similar issue and find that healthy corals will chew through 2-part rather quickly. On my 28g I am using 70mL of each daily to keep somewhat level parameters. Still need to add in a weekly water change to help.

ok cool, i will try that when i need to increase just the alk next.

i do a weekly- every second week 10-15% so that should help too. 70ml sounds like a ton lol maybe i wasnt adding enough calcium carbonate too then.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Ok so the situation isn't as bad a I thought it was, it felt like your supplements are all over the place for a moment.
Keeping your Alk at 7dKH isn't bad, and while you do need to increase your Calcium, it isn't extremely low either.

My suspicion is that your Magnesium is probably depleted, and you'll most likely need to increase it quite a bit to get to acceptable levels, which in turn would influence your Alk and Ca, so getting a testing kit is most defiantly the right path going forward.

As for the usage of Kalk, while one can supplement both Alk and Ca with it, due to its low solubility it usually not enough, so I would use it solely to keep your ph in check.

Increasing any parameter in your tank should be done with caution, slowly and within the recommended max dosage per day which you can easily find with google, so is Randy Holmes recipes.

Also, where are your nutrients at?
Are your corals look healthy right now, if not were they always like that or is it something new?

yeah they definitely were all over the place because i couldnt figure out if it was doing anything after dosing. The calcium is forsure my primary concern as it is the lowest.

Alright i will make my main focus on getting a mag test then, makes me feel better that i probably wasnt completely wrong trying to up my mag without knowing forsure.

I will also get some more calcium carbonate and baking soda as i am running low on both so if i need them with the kalk i have them ready for when i get my likely depleted mag levels back up.

Sounds good thanks again, i will look at the max increases for each before i raise them.

my nutrients are currently: nitrate: 40ish ppm, p04: less than .25, i would guess maybe .1 or less as there is a tiny bit of the green color but not much at all. The corals i currently have look decent however i have killed multiple before these ones. Only reason i added more before i got my levels in check is because i have been trying for almost a year now to get them in check and also i got lucky and got a huge haul for only $40 from a local reefer. The corals i had before the ones i just got were basically just surviving though and not growing other than mushrooms. The favia single head frag i have had for 7 months, hasnt grown at all and has receded about 1-2mm.

 

[Genetics]

ok cool, i will try that when i need to increase just the alk next.

i do a weekly- every second week 10-15% so that should help too. 70ml sounds like a ton lol maybe i wasnt adding enough calcium carbonate too then.

You want to add them in equal parts also. I have a doser where I’m alternating ca/alk every hour. This helps keep parameters stable. Adding that much alk at once could be irritating your corals if it is drastically changing your pH. Baking soda is 8.3-8.4.

 

[DanyL]

yeah they definitely were all over the place because i couldnt figure out if it was doing anything after dosing. The calcium is forsure my primary concern as it is the lowest.

Alright i will make my main focus on getting a mag test then, makes me feel better that i probably wasnt completely wrong trying to up my mag without knowing forsure.

I will also get some more calcium carbonate and baking soda as i am running low on both so if i need them with the kalk i have them ready for when i get my likely depleted mag levels back up.

Sounds good thanks again, i will look at the max increases for each before i raise them.

my nutrients are currently: nitrate: 40ish ppm, p04: less than .25, i would guess maybe .1 or less as there is a tiny bit of the green color but not much at all. The corals i currently have look decent however i have killed multiple before these ones. Only reason i added more before i got my levels in check is because i have been trying for almost a year now to get them in check and also i got lucky and got a huge haul for only $40 from a local reefer. The corals i had before the ones i just got were basically just surviving though and not growing other than mushrooms. The favia single head frag i have had for 7 months, hasnt grown at all and has receded about 1-2mm.

There is a big difference between 0.25 and 0.1 PO4, make sure you know what it is because you can live with 0.1, but 0.25 needs to be lowered.

As for your nitrates, keep your carbon dosing, you may want to mix a DIY nopox solution with Vodka+Vinigar to make it slightly better.

 

[DanyL]

You want to add them in equal parts also. I have a doser where I’m alternating ca/alk every hour. This helps keep parameters stable. Adding that much alk at once could be irritating your corals if it is drastically changing your pH. Baking soda is 8.3-8.4.

The balling method tries to balance the relation between components to be as close as possible to each other when it comes to the amounts dosed. However, It isn't a hard-stone rule to follow, but rather a way to make it easier to quickly do the math and roughly know how much needs to be dosed from component X when Y is Zml per day.
Instead you always need to follow your tests results and dose accordingly.

 

[Uncle99]

interesting, i didnt know that. i just thought it had to be over 1200.

Way too low IMM.
My LPS are fluffier with higher MG. I run 1440ppm.

 

[blazin'reefer]

You want to add them in equal parts also. I have a doser where I’m alternating ca/alk every hour. This helps keep parameters stable. Adding that much alk at once could be irritating your corals if it is drastically changing your pH. Baking soda is 8.3-8.4.

alright thanks. I was never adding them in equal parts previously, just if one was low plus the kalk if both were low and then both when they werent doing anything to raise levels but thats good to know that adding both in equal parts is the norm. I guess thats why they refer to it as 2 part then.

The balling method tries to balance the relation between components to be as close as possible to each other when it comes to the amounts dosed. However, It isn't a hard-stone rule to follow, but rather a way to make it easier to quickly do the math and roughly know how much needs to be dosed from component X when Y is Zml per day.
Instead you always need to follow your tests results and dose accordingly.

alright so with 2 part dosing the general idea is dose both in equal parts unless 1 level is lower and then adjust that one higher?

 

[blazin'reefer]

You want to add them in equal parts also. I have a doser where I’m alternating ca/alk every hour. This helps keep parameters stable. Adding that much alk at once could be irritating your corals if it is drastically changing your pH. Baking soda is 8.3-8.4.

also i have been dosing the kalk during the night so the ph increase hopefully isnt that bad and my ph was low to begin with but i should probably monitor it more closely aswell and maybe switch to just 2 part if it is a problem.

 

[blazin'reefer]

There is a big difference between 0.25 and 0.1 PO4, make sure you know what it is because you can live with 0.1, but 0.25 needs to be lowered.

As for your nitrates, keep your carbon dosing, you may want to mix a DIY nopox solution with Vodka+Vinigar to make it slightly better.

according to api tests the phosphate is 0 but it only has 0 which is a yellowish and then .25 which is green, just looking at it at a glance it looks like 0 but if you look really close there is a very slight tint of green to the yellow. i just took a guess at under .1 because it looks closer to the 0 color forsure.

I will keep the carbon dosing up, i might add some vodka into the ratio however i already have an issue with red/brown slime growing on my chaeto and have heard vodka can be worse for feeding problematic bacteria aswell? I also do have only 2 16w leds on the tank currently but do have another much stronger led i took off temperarilly until i got my nutrients in check because i was having bad slime and algae in the tank with it on aswell.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Way too low IMM.
My LPS are fluffier with higher MG. I run 1440ppm.

thanks, i will make sure once i get my mag test and some magnesium i get it up slowly to atleast 1300-1400 then, i have no clue what it currently is at right now.

 

[blazin'reefer]

thanks, i will make sure once i get my mag test and some magnesium i get it up slowly to atleast 1300-1400 then, i have no clue what it currently is at right now.

1350-1450*