Calling all Plumbers! Sump pump question

[ihavecrabs]

So I am in an area where the water table rises above the basement level often. During rain storms it is not uncommon to have the sump pump running every 30 seconds until the water table lowers.

Spring and summer it runs often (every 5 min or so) if there is not heavy rains.

Winter barely runs unless we have a melt.

I have a submersible pump as the main and a pedestal pump as a secondary (I assume if the main can't keep up, shuts down due to heat, or dies)

I can't find any details on using a pedestal as a backup to a submersible. Is this not normal?

I believe the pedestal doesn't work... It sounds rough and I don't hear water moving. I would like to replace it but want to know if it is worth going that route.

Thoughts?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I am not a Mechanical Engineer or Plumber, but I do have an opinion. If my sump pump is coming on with that frequency, I'd want a back up or if anything, an assist if ejection can't be kept up by the sump pump alone. I would think a pedestal pump would be an ideal backup because the float is easily modified at a higher water level.

The other thing I'd do (if not already there) is install a one-way valve (check valve) in the pipe....down low. This allows maximum ejection of the sump hole by not allowing back flow of water once the pump shuts off. The pump won't run as frequently. Get one that has true unions so that it can easily be removed for cleaning or replacement.

 

[Charterreefer]

Sump pumps will only cycle so many times before they fail. Your sump could be too small (I needed mine redug after we moved into my current house). Your pump should be on for enough time to pump several gallons out during each cycle thus preventing it from cycling too much and prematurely burning out. Your pump outlet line could be undersized and/or restricted and not allowing enough water to be pumped out during each cycle.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I am not a Mechanical Engineer or Plumber, but I do have an opinion. If my sump pump is coming on with that frequency, I'd want a back up or if anything, an assist if ejection can't be kept up by the sump pump alone. I would think a pedestal pump would be an ideal backup because the float is easily modified at a higher water level.

The other thing I'd do (if not already there) is install a one-way valve (check valve) in the pipe....down low. This allows maximum ejection of the sump hole by not allowing back flow of water once the pump shuts off. The pump won't run as frequently. Get one that has true unions so that it can easily be removed for cleaning or replacement.

I'm of the same mindset.

Low set check valves are in place.

Thanks!

 

[ihavecrabs]

Sump pumps will only cycle so many times before they fail. Your sump could be too small (I needed mine redug after we moved into my current house). Your pump should be on for enough time to pump several gallons out during each cycle thus preventing it from cycling too much and prematurely burning out. Your pump outlet line could be undersized and/or restricted and not allowing enough water to be pumped out during each cycle.

Makes sense. Typically with submersible, you can't adjust the float on off height right (or cycle length).

I measured the output and it is about 2.5g per cycle.

Another interested detail is when I looked up the pump, it is rated for this size sump. In fact the sump is on the wider side of the range provided which means it is pumping out the ideal water volume (based on manuf recommendation anyway).

Pvc is 1.5" I believe.

To give you an idea, the weeping tile inlet into the sump is currebtly running like a garden hose that is on half way.. constantly flowing into the sump (based on the sump output in getting 7.5g a minute into the sump)

 

[iced98lx]

Your sump pit could be undersized for your drainage, but really what it comes down to is you are in a must pump situation 3/4 of the year. It sounds similar to when I first moved into my current home. We mitigated run off with some landscaping around the house to get the water out as far away from the house during rainy periods, that helped us a bunch, it may not help you depending on soil type and water table.

A pedestal pump is a fine backup for a submerged pump but remember what you're protecting against and what you're not. You're protecting against pump failure of your primary pump. That is a real concern with the frequency of cycle you have so that's good. You can further mitigate that by simply doing a rough estimate of cycles and replacing your pump prior to it reaching it's projected life span. I replace ours every 2 years like clockwork as it's just one less thing to worry about (and ours gets salt water put in it occasionally unfortunately).

What you're not protecting from is a power outage. Many backup systems will be two pumps, both internal, one that runs only on regular power and one that can run on battery power or water pressure. Those secondary pumps typically pump less water (resulting in lower volume handling capability but also longer run times) but should be sized to maintain 100% of your needed load obviously. If your main goes out, you're still pumping water and keeping up, and if your power goes out you're still pumping water and keeping up.

We very rarely have power issues but when are they most likely? during a storm. I use a submersible with a water powered backup as our water main is right next to the pit and we have great water pressure.

 

[siggy]

We mitigated run off with some landscaping around the house to get the water out as far away from the house during rainy periods, that helped us a bunch, it may not help you depending on soil type and water table.

Living in Michigan and In sight of a great lake I can hit water digging for worms. Here we all run our down-spouts from our gutters into drainage tubes and tie into the storm drains, and as @iced98xl above mentioned.
On a side note a lot of us have Water Backup sump pumps incase of power failures, and the Water-co's give you a break on your water bill.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Your sump pit could be undersized for your drainage, but really what it comes down to is you are in a must pump situation 3/4 of the year. It sounds similar to when I first moved into my current home. We mitigated run off with some landscaping around the house to get the water out as far away from the house during rainy periods, that helped us a bunch, it may not help you depending on soil type and water table.

A pedestal pump is a fine backup for a submerged pump but remember what you're protecting against and what you're not. You're protecting against pump failure of your primary pump. That is a real concern with the frequency of cycle you have so that's good. You can further mitigate that by simply doing a rough estimate of cycles and replacing your pump prior to it reaching it's projected life span. I replace ours every 2 years like clockwork as it's just one less thing to worry about (and ours gets salt water put in it occasionally unfortunately).

What you're not protecting from is a power outage. Many backup systems will be two pumps, both internal, one that runs only on regular power and one that can run on battery power or water pressure. Those secondary pumps typically pump less water (resulting in lower volume handling capability but also longer run times) but should be sized to maintain 100% of your needed load obviously. If your main goes out, you're still pumping water and keeping up, and if your power goes out you're still pumping water and keeping up.

We very rarely have power issues but when are they most likely? during a storm. I use a submersible with a water powered backup as our water main is right next to the pit and we have great water pressure.

My current (dead) pedestal pump is actually run through a battery and battery maintainer and is currently rated at 3.5amps.

I was going to purchase a new 1/2hp 3.5a pump and run the power cord into a adapter to two wire onto the battery and maintainer. Essentially it is powered by the maintainer unless the power goes out in which case the battery takes over.

Wrong move? Or keep doing what I'm doing? Lol

 

[ihavecrabs]

Living in Michigan and In sight of a great lake I can hit water digging for worms. Here we all run our down-spouts from our gutters into drainage tubes and tie into the storm drains, and as @iced98xl above mentioned.
On a side note a lot of us have Water Backup sump pumps incase of power failures, and the Water-co's give you a break on your water bill.

Luckily (and unluckily) I'm the water company [emoji4].

Well and septic

 

[iced98lx]

My current (dead) pedestal pump is actually run through a battery and battery maintainer and is currently rated at 3.5amps.

I was going to purchase a new 1/2hp 3.5a pump and run the power cord into a adapter to two wire onto the battery and maintainer.

Wrong move? Or keep doing what I'm doing? Lol

I think right move since your well (and hope of a water pressure driven unit) also dies when the power goes out. Check your batteries, test run the pumps regularly and replace on a schedule and you've eliminated a lot of possible issues! One thing I'd check is how long your battery setup can sustain pumping duty, and make sure if it has power from the wall it's not ONLY running on battery as that takes away it's ability to cover for a dead primary for very long. No one likes to have a timer ticking when they're replacing a dead pump!