Can salt mix low on NaCL correct Ionic imbalance by 2 part dosing ?

[soeminpaing]

As the title describe, some people are saying dosing 2 part will increase Na and Cl and eventually shift the balance. I was wondering instead of paying $$$ for NaCl free part C of the balling mix, why don't we use a salt mix that is lower in NaCl for regular water change. Won't that correct the issue? Or is there anyway I can take out NaCl from my new saltwater mix lol. Just wondering why a bucket for salt is less expensive than a pack of NaCl free salt. I think both of these salt mixes contain traces and part C of the balling only contain enough traces to offset the imbalance. I heard about ESV salt that you had to mix all the ingridients by yourself and also wondering if I take out the NaCL pack and throw it away, would I end up with NaCl free salt mix.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As the title describe, some people are saying dosing 2 part will increase Na and Cl and eventually shift the balance. I was wondering instead of paying $$$ for NaCl free part C of the balling mix, why don't we use a salt mix that is lower in NaCl for regular water change. Won't that correct the issue? Or is there anyway I can take out NaCl from my new saltwater mix lol. Just wondering why a bucket for salt is less expensive than a pack of NaCl free salt. I think both of these salt mixes contain traces and part C of the balling only contain enough traces to offset the imbalance. I heard about ESV salt that you had to mix all the ingridients by yourself and also wondering if I take out the NaCL pack and throw it away, would I end up with NaCl free salt mix.

Commercial two parts have no such imbalance. Products like ESV-B-ionic are designed to have no imbalance.

If you use just sodium carbonate/bicarbonate and calcium chloride, you may benefit from a sodium chloride free salt mix. Water changes also help limit this concern.

But if you use a DIY two part (like my recipe ) and use the magnesium part as directed (not as you think you need it based on testing), then the largest part of the benefit of the sodium chloride free salt is not there any more: magnesium and sulfate balance. Possibly potassium too, depending on what you use for ingredients.

A bucket of salt mix can cost less than a sodium chloride free salt mix because sodium chloride is likely the cheapest ingredient in the bucket, so you add in a ton of cheap stuff, making it cost less per pound.

There is no way to remove sodium or chloride from seawater and have the othe rions stay.

 

[soeminpaing]

Commercial two parts have no such imbalance. Products like ESV-B-ionic are designed to have no imbalance.

If you use just sodium carbonate/bicarbonate and calcium chloride, you may benefit from a sodium chloride free salt mix. Water changes also help limit this concern.

But if you use a DIY two part (like my recipe ) and use the magnesium part as directed (not as you think you need it based on testing), then the largest part of the benefit of the sodium chloride free salt is not there any more: magnesium and sulfate balance. Possibly potassium too, depending on what you use for ingredients.

A bucket of salt mix can cost less than a sodium chloride free salt mix because sodium chloride is likely the cheapest ingredient in the bucket, so you add in a ton of cheap stuff, making it cost less per pound.

There is no way to remove sodium or chloride from seawater and have the othe rions stay.

Thanks for clearing up Mr. Randy. I am using the improve 2 part recipe and really loving it. The only thing I am still confusing for me is
" Dissolve Epsom salts (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume ". This is the only part where it does not describe how much grams to add. When I use google it says 1 cup is 128 gram. Am I correct in using this to multiply both epsom salt and MgCl. Sorry If I sound dumb.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for clearing up Mr. Randy. I am using the improve 2 part recipe and really loving it. The only thing I am still confusing for me is
" Dissolve Epsom salts (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume ". This is the only part where it does not describe how much grams to add. When I use google it says 1 cup is 128 gram. Am I correct in using this to multiply both epsom salt and MgCl. Sorry If I sound dumb.

I'd use cups as it is close enough to something that must be guessed at (the magnesium consumption rate , relative to calcium and alk, will vary with how much coralline and different types of coral you have), but the original recipe was designed for 64 ounces total magnesium additive per gallon, and the improved version can stick with that.

 

[Acroguy]

Maybe someone could help me out

So I am using the 3 part red sea foundation elements (alk-powder, ca-liquid, mg-liquid).

So my “issue” is I am dosing 250 ml of the alk solution and as you know it slowly increases salinity.
So to combat that I am taking out roughly half a gallon / 1.6 ~ liters of saltwater each week and it is then replaced by ro/di water and also doing 10% waterchanges weekly.

So basically my issue is that if I continue to do this for long enough timeline I will strip the major and minor trace elements from the water column.

Is it possible to use the part c ( Na Cl free sea salt ) from tropic marine to use in combination with the 3 part red sea to offset that imbalance in trace elements ? And if it is possible what concentration would I mix it to?
As currently I am dosing 250 ml / day ( that would be roughly 3.3x less if I would use the liquid solution as it is much more concentrated ) of the DIY powder alk from red sea
But only 25 ml of the Ca solution as it is already in liquid form so it is much more concentrated.
And like 5 ml of mag / day.
So would I need to mix tropic marin part c to match the 250 ml alk daily or the 25 ml Ca daily.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Like other commercial two parts (such as ESV-B-ionic), the Red Sea foundation elements claims to not have this issue because they put all of the necessary ions in those supplements. While I cannot independently confirm this to be true, there is no reason to doubt it, and if true, you would do more harm than good trying to correct something that is already correct.

FOUNDATION ELEMENTS - Red Sea Reef Care Program

FOUNDATION ELEMENTS - Red Sea Reef Care Program - Defines and maintains the correctly balanced levels of Calcium, Alkalinity & Magnesium

www.redseafish.com

"Red Sea’s Foundation Elements provides a complete solution for maintaining and replenishing the foundation building blocks of the reef aquarium by providing complete and balanced supplements, formulated to work together for long term use and without changing the ionic balance of the water."

 

[Acroguy]

Like other commercial two parts (such as ESV-B-ionic), the Red Sea foundation elements claims to not have this issue because they put all of the necessary ions in those supplements. While I cannot independently confirm this to be true, there is no reason to doubt it, and if true, you would do more harm than good trying to correct something that is already correct.

FOUNDATION ELEMENTS - Red Sea Reef Care Program

FOUNDATION ELEMENTS - Red Sea Reef Care Program - Defines and maintains the correctly balanced levels of Calcium, Alkalinity & Magnesium

www.redseafish.com

"Red Sea’s Foundation Elements provides a complete solution for maintaining and replenishing the foundation building blocks of the reef aquarium by providing complete and balanced supplements, formulated to work together for long term use and without changing the ionic balance of the water."

Thank you Mr.Randy.

Could it be then that my salinity increases because I am using the powdered form for Alk but liquid form for Ca. In my mind it should not matter if I use powder or liquid as only the concentration is what changes.

One more question: If I were to switch to tropic marin balling method would it matter if I dose lets say 100ml of part A and B divided into 100 doses - 1dose = 1ml but divide part C only into 24 doses - 1dose = 4.16 ml for example.
Or could I add part C just as one big dose - 100 ml at once / day ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you Mr.Randy.

Could it be then that my salinity increases because I am using the powdered form for Alk but liquid form for Ca. In my mind it should not matter if I use powder or liquid as only the concentration is what changes.

One more question: If I were to switch to tropic marin balling method would it matter if I dose lets say 100ml of part A and B divided into 100 doses - 1dose = 1ml but divide part C only into 24 doses - 1dose = 4.16 ml for example.
Or could I add part C just as one big dose - 100 ml at once / day ?

You will always get a salinity increase over time, whether it is a stripped down two part consisting of only calcium chloride and sodium carbonate/bicarbonate, or a full and complete ionic balanced version. The latter is somewhat higher in terms of salinity increase, but the sodium and chloride dominate the increase in either formulation.

When using Balling Part C with DIY parts A and B, or the Tropic Marin Parts A and B, the part C need not be dosed especially frequently. Once a day is more than often enough. Even once a week is fine.

 

[Acroguy]

You will always get a salinity increase over time, whether it is a stripped down two part consisting of only calcium chloride and sodium carbonate/bicarbonate, or a full and complete ionic balanced version. The latter is somewhat higher in terms of salinity increase, but the sodium and chloride dominate the increase in either formulation.

When using Balling Part C with DIY parts A and B, or the Tropic Marin Parts A and B, the part C need not be dosed especially frequently. Once a day is more than often enough. Even once a week is

 

[Acroguy]

Thanks, so basically you are saying that in theory it does not matter if I am using the red sea foundation a , b , c or TM abc because both will increase salinity but both “programs” will have ionic balance. Basically I just compensate for the increased salinity with a bit lower salinity waterchanges or by taking out saltwater and adding rodi back. So I wont loose the trace elements over time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, so basically you are saying that in theory it does not matter if I am using the red sea foundation a , b , c or TM abc because both will increase salinity but both “programs” will have ionic balance. Basically I just compensate for the increased salinity with a bit lower salinity waterchanges or by taking out saltwater and adding rodi back. So I wont loose the trace elements over time.

That is what both companies claim, yes.

 

[Acroguy]

That is what both companies claim, yes.

Well I think I will monitor my parameters and send off another ICP to see if anything has changed.One thing I observed is that at the time (28.dec.2020) when I sent off my last ICP test I have been using the powder version of red seas alk already for 1.5 months but the test showed that almost everything was the same as 2 years ago when I did an ICP as well.Well apart from tin wich now showed zero wich I guess is a good thing.
So maybe there is some truth to it what Red sea claims.