Trying to figure how balling work

[Lobophyton]

Hello, i used to do my own fertilizer in soft water dutch tank, i still have tons of mineral salt from that time.

I made Part A with Cacl2 1ppm every 5ml, Part B i use baking soda, 1 dKH every 50ml, and part C is Salt without NaCl which i didn't make yet cause i don't understand. If i understand well the three part is classic Balling ?

How to make ionic balance within the three Part ? thx

i'm used to this calculator to make solution.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I fully understand the Balling and other two part systems, but I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

Are you wanting a recipe to make your own Balling Part C? That will be quite a chore since you need to buy many different chemicals.

If that is it, you'd need a full recipe for making your own salt mix (which I do not have except a minimal mix that I describe in the link below), and add everything the recipe calls for except not the sodium chloride.

What is Seawater? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

An Artificial Seawater Recipe
For those who are interested, the following artificial seawater recipe is taken from "Chemical Oceanography" by Frank Millero. It makes a recipe that matches 35 ppt seawater in terms of major ions, but does not try to match all minor and trace elements, most of which will be present as impurities in the major elements.

23.98 g sodium chloride
5.029 g magnesium chloride
4.01 g sodium sulfate
1.14 g calcium chloride
0.699 g potassium chloride
0.172 g sodium bicarbonate
0.100 g potassium bromide
0.0254 g boric acid
0.0143 g strontium chloride
0.0029 g sodium fluoride
Water to 1 kg total weight.

 

[Lobophyton]

I fully understand the Balling and other two part systems, but I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

Are you wanting a recipe to make your own Balling Part C? That will be quite a chore since you need to buy many different chemicals.

If that is it, you'd need a full recipe for making your own salt mix (which I do not have except a minimal mix that I describe in the link below), and add everything the recipe calls for except not the sodium chloride.

What is Seawater? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

An Artificial Seawater Recipe
For those who are interested, the following artificial seawater recipe is taken from "Chemical Oceanography" by Frank Millero. It makes a recipe that matches 35 ppt seawater in terms of major ions, but does not try to match all minor and trace elements, most of which will be present as impurities in the major elements.

23.98 g sodium chloride
5.029 g magnesium chloride
4.01 g sodium sulfate
1.14 g calcium chloride
0.699 g potassium chloride
0.172 g sodium bicarbonate
0.100 g potassium bromide
0.0254 g boric acid
0.0143 g strontium chloride
0.0029 g sodium fluoride
Water to 1 kg total weight.

I got soft water micro mix ptsd flashback, i bought Aquaforest Reef Mineral Salt to avoid doing that, let's say my tank consume 10 ppm calcium, 1 dKH a day, how to know how much aquaforest i need to dose to make ionic balance ?

Aquaforest say to put 25g in 1000ml RO/DI, so if i need to add for exemple 50ml of Part A + 20ml Part B i will need to add 35ml of Aquaforest (Part C) to make balance ? i'm kind of confused

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To figure out how much Balling Part C or Aquaforest mineral salt to use, I'd start with their directions.

Do you have directions from them on the package? I do not see it on their web site. if you do not, I'd follow the directions for Balling Part C, which will be adequately similar.

 

[Lobophyton]

To figure out how much Balling Part C or Aquaforest mineral salt to use, I'd start with their directions.

Do you have directions from them on the package? I do not see it on their web site. if you do not, I'd follow the directions for Balling Part C, which will be adequately similar.

They wrote : Solution of Reef Mineral Salt should be dosed with the same liquid-amounts as solutions of Calcium and KH Buffer.

Seems like the concentration doesn't matter ? so Part A ml + Part B ml = Part C ml ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

They wrote : Solution of Reef Mineral Salt should be dosed with the same liquid-amounts as solutions of Calcium and KH Buffer.

Seems like the concentration doesn't matter of Part A/B as long as the volume is the same ? so Part A ml + Part B ml = Part C ml ?

No, that's not true. They mean equal to their products in volume, which is not the same as other products.

They also mean equal to one of them, not both added together.

"Typical aquarium with average number of hard corals requires approximately 25ml of each component per 100 l (27 US gal) of water daily. "

Are you using their Parts A and B, or a different product?

[:en]Aquaforest Component 1+2+3+ - Aquaforest Official Website[:pl]Aquaforest Component 1+2+3+ - oficjalna strona Aquaforest[:]

aquaforest.eu

 

[Lobophyton]

No, that's not true. They mean equal to their products in volume, which is not the same as other products.

They also mean equal to one of them, not both added together.

"Typical aquarium with average number of hard corals requires approximately 25ml of each component per 100 l (27 US gal) of water daily. "

Are you using their Parts A and B, or a different product?

[:en]Aquaforest Component 1+2+3+ - Aquaforest Official Website[:pl]Aquaforest Component 1+2+3+ - oficjalna strona Aquaforest[:]

aquaforest.eu

I'm using 100% Cacl2 for Part A and 100% NaHCo3 for part B, could try to copy it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm using 100% Cacl2 for Part A and 100% NaHCo3 for part B, could try to copy it

So you are making your own Parts A and B?

What recipe?

You can use the Parts 1 and 2 from my DIY recipe number 2, if you want (or #1 if you bake the baking soda), and then we can determine how much AF to use.

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

 

[Lobophyton]

So you are making your own Parts A and B?

What recipe?

You can use the Parts 1 and 2 from my DIY recipe number 2, if you want (or #1 if you bake the baking soda), and then we can determine how much AF to use.

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Thanks you for helping me, i've read it, seems farily easy to do, i can't bake so i'll have to use the recipe 2. I would just need to adjust everything to match 1liter volume. The hard part is how to adjust with AF ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks you for helping me, i've read it, seems farily easy to do, i can't bake so i'll have to use the part 1&2. I would just need to adjust everything to match 1liter volume. The hard part is how to adjust with AF ?

OK, so use my Recipe #2, parts 1 and 2 (not part 3).

The aquaforest recipe is nearly identical in potency (so close that perhaps they copied mine) and so you will follow the AF directions exactly and for each 25 mL of the calcium part, add 25 mL of the dissolved mineral salt.

 

[Lobophyton]

OK, so use my Recipe #2, parts 1 and 2 (not part 3).

The aquaforest recipe is nearly identical in potency (so close that perhaps they copied mine) and so you will follow the AF directions exactly and for each 25 mL of the calcium part, add 25 mL of the dissolved mineral salt.

Thanks, that's a 1:1 ratio, for Part 1 & 3, what about the part 2 ?



Part 1 : CaCl2.2H2O/ 1 liter (0.26 gallon)

I need to add 67.86 grams to get 18,500 Ca

Part 2 : NaHCo3 / 1 liter (0.26 gallon)

I need to add 79.7 grams to get 2660 dKH

Part 3 : Aquaforest / 1 liter (0.26 gallon)

i need to add 25 grams

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, that's a 1:1 ratio, for Part 1 & 3, what about the part 2 ?



Part 1 : CaCl2.2H2O/ 1 liter (0.26 gallon)

I need to add 67.86 grams to get 18,500 Ca

Part 2 : NaHCo3 / 1 liter (0.26 gallon)

I need to add 79.7 grams to get 2660 dKH

Part 3 : Aquaforest / 1 liter (0.26 gallon)

i need to add 25 grams

In general, the alk and calcium parts will be added close to equally. Just base the AF dosing on the calcium part.

 

[Lobophyton]

In general, the alk and calcium parts will be added close to equally. Just base the AF dosing on the calcium part.

Okay that's now seems easy and your website is gold, thanks so much !!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Okay that's now seems easy and your website is gold, thanks so much !!

You're welcome and thanks.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Lobophyton]

Hi, i though maybe it was better to ask here rather than create a new topic, my water parameter are :

Calcium : 450
Kh : 8.6
Magnesium : 1275

magnesium seems a bit low, how much can i up it without issue for lps/sps ? thx

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi, i though maybe it was better to ask here rather than create a new topic, my water parameter are :

Calcium : 450
Kh : 8.6
Magnesium : 1275

magnesium seems a bit low, how much can i up it without issue for lps/sps ? thx

First issue is magnesium test accuracy is low.

Second, the current value, if accurate, is fine and matches average ocean water.

If it is accurate and you want to raise it, I likely would not aim for above 1400 ppm unless you have a very clear reason for wanting it higher.

 

[Lobophyton]

First issue is magnesium test accuracy is low.

Second, the current value, if accurate, is fine and matches average ocean water.

If it is accurate and you want to raise it, I likely would not aim for above 1400 ppm unless you have a very clear reason for wanting it higher.

Thanks, i see no reason to increase magnesium if that's fine. Calcium is 450, i made the test 2 times using salifert, don't know how accurate it is, aquaforest reef ICP salt is 449 calcium.

Regarding the balling. Calcium seems already high, using 0.2 ml per gallon with the 18.500ppm solution would add near one 1ppm calcium a day (if i'm right), i have young corals in the tank so the consumption is rather low, should i bother reducing the dosage on the "no fish, live rock, 0.2 ml/g" recommandation of your website or continue to use the " few corals, 0.4ml/g" dosage? thx

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The calcium is also currently fine ( I recommend 400-550 ppm), and I'd add the calcium based on the alk depletion rate (so dose the whole method 1:1:1 based on alk demand).

 

[MikeLeong]

Hi Randy, I have a similar issue as Lobophyton except I am using RedSea Foundation Ca+ (dry) and RedSea Foundation Alk (dry). Does your recipe 2 apply to these 2 products as well so that I can use the Aquaforest mineral salt in the same liquid amount as Cal?

Thank you and your reef chemistry calculator is super useful because of its flexibility to select different products.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The question boils down to whether the dry Red SEa products can be used to make my diy recipes. The answer is yes for recipe 2, but not my recipe 1, since the Red Sea alk product is mostly or completely baking soda (unbaked).