Can't decide whether to abandon LEDs

[ihavecrabs]

I may have them beat: I use GU10 LED bulbs on my DIY fixtures, so it's a twist-out/twist-in job to change bulbs – one-handed.

Plus, these bulbs barely get hot to the touch so you don't even have to wait for them to cool down before handling.

(All my bulbs are 2:1 cool blue:white, but I haven't seen a need to add/change anything color-wise.)

Here's someone else's fixture, with a basic set of $1-$2 bulbs, photographed nicely:

2¢

How do you fit a T5 bulb in there? [emoji6]

I meant versatility across T5 and LED but that is an awesome setup. Something I will consider myself in the future.

Any details on that setup you can share?

 

[mcarroll]

Ya, I just meant beat on simplicity. ;)

This is kinda the home thread for the design:
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/267432-gu10-led-build-thread-chinese-ebay-lights/

Basically you have a row of bulbs that will light about 12" width of tank and go 30" deep or more.

Ignore the missing photos in the main post....the video, the million example builds, and the rest of the thread are good. Lots of experimenting was going on....mostly disregard the designs that didn't use the standard bulb layout.

The most basic bulbs work well and cost a buck or two. Sockets cost less than a buck...sometimes less than 50¢.

If you want custom bulbs you might pay $5-$6 per bulb. Still highly reasonable in cost and I've done it both ways before. (Blending is a bit better with custom bulbs where blues and whites are mixed on each bulb.)

For an example, take a 120 gallon tank that's 48"L x 24"W.

That would take two strips. 48" tank ÷ 2" bulbs = 24 bulbs.

Minus one for 23 bulb-and-socket sets per strip – you need an odd number of bulbs so the whites are on both ends, unless you do blended bulbs. (Plus you don't really need that last bulb for coverage.)

23 sets * ($1 socket + $2 bulb) * 2 rows = $138. Not bad! :)

You do have to come up with a fixture to mount the sockets to (look at the thread for LOTS of good ideas), but if you're even a little clever that part won't cost you much. (I'm not that clever and it still cost me close to nothing even on the most-elaborate fixture I built.)

If you go for custom bulbs, that brings the total up to about $280.

 

[gregkn73]

I use custom multichips above my tank, but with a lux meter can only measure just above the water surface, which is not useful at all, because I use 60 lens and the light hasn't overlap at that height..... Do you have any idea how can I take a measurement inside the tank ,closer to where the corals are? The probe of my cheap luxmeter is not water resistant.

 

[reefwiser]

I could care less about numbers. One can have all the graph's in the world. I have used Kessil's black box and Radions on my tanks. Nothing grows corals like MH and T5's I like grouping corals. An I like to get them growing and seeing their forms develop. LED 'S are just not cutting it for me and my corals. I spent a bunch of money on all the various models and at the end of the day while I learned a lot going back to MH was a very easy choice. I love SPS coals too much to abuse them by trying to grow them under LED's.

 

[mcarroll]

I use custom multichips above my tank, but with a lux meter can only measure just above the water surface, which is not useful at all, because I use 60 lens and the light hasn't overlap at that height..... Do you have any idea how can I take a measurement inside the tank ,closer to where the corals are? The probe of my cheap luxmeter is not water resistant.

Love to see a shot of your tank and/or the light! Love oddballs and you don't see too many multi chip setups. :)

Someone in another thread actually did use their cheapie non-water-resistant lux probe underwater and it seemed to give sane results AND not break down in the process.

I don't know how long you'll get out of one of those meters using it like that before connections inside corrode, but at $15 maybe it's worth the sacrifice?

And maybe if you give it a good soak and rinse in RODI water afterwards it wouldn't even be a problem...who knows.

Do you know what you get for readings at the water surface or have you not measured yet? I'm curious! And what is the mounting height above the water?

You can look as some PAR maps that people have published online and get some idea as to the effect that overlap has – your numbers would be different, but the differential should be pretty close to the same if the lamps they are using are at least similar. (Not too many out there with 60º lenses though.)

I don't know your situation, but you could theoretically remove the light from the tank and measure in air and estimate.

 

[gregkn73]

Love to see a shot of your tank and/or the light! Love oddballs and you don't see too many multi chip setups. :)

Someone in another thread actually did use their cheapie non-water-resistant lux probe underwater and it seemed to give sane results AND not break down in the process.

I don't know how long you'll get out of one of those meters using it like that before connections inside corrode, but at $15 maybe it's worth the sacrifice?

And maybe if you give it a good soak and rinse in RODI water afterwards it wouldn't even be a problem...who knows.

Do you know what you get for readings at the water surface or have you not measured yet? I'm curious! And what is the mounting height above the water?

You can look as some PAR maps that people have published online and get some idea as to the effect that overlap has – your numbers would be different, but the differential should be pretty close to the same if the lamps they are using are at least similar. (Not too many out there with 60º lenses though.)

I don't know your situation, but you could theoretically remove the light from the tank and measure in air and estimate.

8*20w 4*5w in the center. 25cm above the water. Directly under the 20w led at the water surface, is above 10240 lumen I can measure with my phone app, and in the middle or a the edges is 2000lumen. I have ordered a cheap luxmeter from eBay 5 days ago, but now I notice that the prob is not wateresistant so I could not measure inside the tank I want..... I would like to take a measurement, before I decide to replace the lenses with 80 ° or just move up another 5-10cm the light.

 

[mcarroll]

Light Meters
Hm....you might want to try a different app if you can't get it to output foot-candles or lux.....lumens is the wrong unit and measures something different than we're looking for.

Folks (at least one here on R2R) have actually used the sensor from the LX-1010B as a submersible. It actually seemed to give sane readings and it didn't instantly stop working. I guess maybe with an RODI soak and rinse afterwards it might not be that big a deal.

Lenses
Difference between 60º and 80º lenses (or any pair that are fairly close) will be negligible. I've got 60º 30º 90º 120º and 20ºx50º on hand to build with....the ellipsoids are the only ones that are completely distinct. ;) It takes a meter to reliably discern the output from any other close pair....and even then it's not crystal clear. If I ever mixed up my 60º and 90º lenses, for example, I'd be hard pressed to get them separated with 100% confidence.

 

[mcarroll]

So is your fixture all passive cooling? I think I see fans on top, but it looks like they're just fastened to the 2x4's. Am I seeing it right? Maybe those are power supplies?

And which LED colors are your 20w? Are they a hybrid (actinic + white) or a blended (i.e. 20K) chip?

 

[gregkn73]

Light Meters
Hm....you might want to try a different app if you can't get it to output foot-candles or lux.....lumens is the wrong unit and measures something different than we're looking for.

Folks (at least one here on R2R) have actually used the sensor from the LX-1010B as a submersible. It actually seemed to give sane readings and it didn't instantly stop working. I guess maybe with an RODI soak and rinse afterwards it might not be that big a deal.

Lenses
Difference between 60º and 80º lenses (or any pair that are fairly close) will be negligible. I've got 60º 30º 90º 120º and 20ºx50º on hand to build with....the ellipsoids are the only ones that are completely distinct. ;) It takes a meter to reliably discern the output from any other close pair....and even then it's not crystal clear. If I ever mixed up my 60º and 90º lenses, for example, I'd be hard pressed to get them separated with 100% confidence.

I thing it is a phone restriction ,because I use 3 different apps with 10240 lux being the upper limit.

This is what I have ordered http://www.ebay.com/itm/Display1-20...049100?hash=item27db8b128c:g:uWoAAMXQWzNSnEqx

Putting the prob in a transparent bag, and close it as tight I can, wondering if it might work.....

 

[gregkn73]

So is your fixture all passive cooling? I think I see fans on top, but it looks like they're just fastened to the 2x4's. Am I seeing it right? Maybe those are power supplies?

And which LED colors are your 20w? Are they a hybrid (actinic + white) or a blended (i.e. 20K) chip?

Cooling is with a low rpm fan, silent and effective.
20 w multichip LEDs are from LEDs global, custom ordered
2*400nm
2*420nm
2*630nm
2*490nm
4*450nm
8*18000k

 

[mcarroll]

I thing it is a phone restriction ,because I use 3 different apps with 10240 lux being the upper limit.

@saltyfilmfolks might offer a correction here, but.... The phone light sensor is designed to sense differentials in the light field....not an overall level. So the software has to interpret this and calculate a regular lux reading. If the software gets unexpected results (too new a phone or camera and software is old and stale most likely) this is why...garbage in:garbage out. Salty also has an Android app that he and others have tested quite a bit....think it might be made by bits and chips software or something like that.

If you feel like trying more, just try to find one that's the newest...or ideally one that specifically claims to support your phone.

Putting the prob in a transparent bag, and close it as tight I can

Unless you're willing to silicone the opening where the cord comes out, I don't know if I'd bother.

I have never used mine submersed and I've never been unable to figure out a lighting situation so far....so maybe you can get by on surface measurements. Keep me in the loop and if I can help I will. :)

BTW, what are all three dimensions of your tank?

2*400nm
2*420nm
2*630nm
2*490nm
4*450nm
8*18000k

I think I only see the 18K's and 450's in the photo....where are the ones in red?

 

[gregkn73]

@saltyfilmfolks might offer a correction here, but.... The phone light sensor is designed to sense differentials in the light field....not an overall level. So the software has to interpret this and calculate a regular lux reading. If the software gets unexpected results (too new a phone or camera and software is old and stale most likely) this is why...garbage in:garbage out. Salty also has an Android app that he and others have tested quite a bit....think it might be made by bits and chips software or something like that.

If you feel like trying more, just try to find one that's the newest...or ideally one that specifically claims to support your phone.



Unless you're willing to silicone the opening where the cord comes out, I don't know if I'd bother.

I have never used mine submersed and I've never been unable to figure out a lighting situation so far....so maybe you can get by on surface measurements. Keep me in the loop and if I can help I will. :)

BTW, what are all three dimensions of your tank?



I think I only see the 18K's and 450's in the photo....where are the ones in red?

I have also android phone so I am interesting to know which app they use.

132*72*60 tank dimensions in cm.

Still have enough silicone, so I just might try when it will arrive.

20*1w led soldered by my order, from led global, in those 8* 20w multichip which you can see at the photo. The 4 leds in the centre row are 4w multichip 1*400+1*410+1*430+1*450nm, use them as moonlight.

S

 

[revhtree]

I could care less about numbers. One can have all the graph's in the world. I have used Kessil's black box and Radions on my tanks. Nothing grows corals like MH and T5's I like grouping corals. An I like to get them growing and seeing their forms develop. LED 'S are just not cutting it for me and my corals. I spent a bunch of money on all the various models and at the end of the day while I learned a lot going back to MH was a very easy choice. I love SPS coals too much to abuse them by trying to grow them under LED's.

Ed you know all I got is love for you man but I don't understand your statement. Well I understand that it truly how you feel so it seems absolutely true for you. But if you look all around the industry everybody grows corals, sps dominant tanks as well, under all types of lighting including LED. I could reference hundreds of nice tanks.

Still love ya man.

 

[revhtree]

This will be one of my go to examples. Look how deep these corals are: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/dr-joshi’s-500-gallon-sps-dominated-mixed-reef.2/

 

[reefwiser]

First Sanjay has more ecotech's than the average person would have on an aquarium. He has 8 of them across his tank in an end to end configuration. The more Radions you put on a tank the better results you will get. The problem is that how many people have 6400 dollars to spend on Radion lighting. On my small tank I would need to add another Radion at 800 dollars to achieve the results that I know I can achieve.

 

[hart24601]

Abuse SPS, haha - that's great!


I like LED, but stick with what you like, it's a great part of the hobby right now that we have soajy choices. Personally I have always hated MH but again, different strokes for different folks!

 

[revhtree]

First Sanjay has more ecotech's than the average person would have on an aquarium. He has 8 of them across his tank in an end to end configuration. The more Radions you put on a tank the better results you will get. The problem is that how many people have 6400 dollars to spend on Radion lighting. On my small tank I would need to add another Radion at 800 dollars to achieve the results that I know I can achieve.

But then I would argue that his tank is much deeper and wider than the normal hobbyists tank. I would then add that your extra $800 will be cheaper in the long term considering the cost of your bulbs, cooling the tank, and energy that it takes.

 

[reefwiser]

I just went thru a long trial of various LED system's and then decided on the direction I wanted to take. Spend a bunch of money on the various types of LED system. Run same parameters on the tank with just lighting being the only difference. Thought I would do this since I am going to be setup up a new system as I get close to retirement and want to concentrate on coral spawning in the future. It's ok to hate me. :) I am use to it. There where tons of people who didn't think we could keep SPS when I started keeping them in 1990. Lots of real haters then.:)

 

[reefwiser]

Actually I am getting more growth with one 400 dollar fixture using 1.6 amps and no heat. 60 buck for a bulb I get that back with 5x for every Walt disney frag I sell.:)

 

[reeferfoxx]

To the LED haters, I'll take those off your hands? Since they aren't worth much to anyone, you can just hand them over? I'll accept whatever :D