Can't seem to get any growth

[FunkEngine]

Title basically says it all. I put frags in, and I get a little bit of growth in the beginning, nothing super significant, but I can see it at least, and then nothing. I've had several pieces for over a year now and there's been almost no growth since the very beginning on any of them. Some are super pale and others are very brown. Nothing has died yet.

Tank is a reefer 170, 34 gallons.

I keep my alk pretty stable but over the last year its risen and fallen a bit between 7.5 and 8.5 dkh. (Hanna checker)

I don't test calcium much, but its usually around 430 ppm.

I've never tested detectable nitrates with salifert.

Phosphate was a little high at the very beginning of the tank, but has been between 0 and .05 ppm for the last year and a half. (Hanna ULR checker)

I have two mp10s at 50% in reefcrest, so flow should be more than adequate.

Have an omega 130 skimmer that's dialed in and quite productive.

Have an ATO that doses kalk.

Have a neotherm heater very consistently keeping things at 78.

Have diy LED lights that are pretty intense.

Water changes are every 2-3 weeks at 5 gallons. With the way nutrients have been I haven't felt the need to go crazy with these.

I've in the last month started to dose the zeo stuff hoping to get some coloration and growth, so far it has not produced results, but a month is a somewhat short time in the hobby. I don't fiddle with my set up constantly, only adjusting the kalk concentration to keep things stable. Only recent change has been zeo.

I'm just about at my wits end with what could not be right that I'm not seeing any growth and terrible colors. Any ideas what the missing piece might be?

 

[lilchris_357]

What Zeo products are you dosing? According to your levels of NO3 and P04, you have a ULN sys and your corals are starving. With that you should be supplementing some sort of food for your corals.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Yep, you need to get your NO3 up and have a trace of PO4. NO3 5-10.

 

[FunkEngine]

I had figured that might be the case, which is why I started zeo. I'm skeptical of all the claims that the bottles make, but plenty of people have had results with the system so I'm giving it a try.

I currently dose the following at the recommended amounts

Everyday:
ZeoStart
CoralVitalizer

3 Day Rotation
SpongePower
ZeoBak
ZeoFood

 

[Mr.Rocc]

I dont use Zoe stuff but isn't it intended to be used with the Zeovit system? Anyhow, a full 1 dkh swing is pretty intense and will stunt growth as well as starving them with Ultra Low Nutrients like everyone said. Try to skim dryer and see what happens.

 

[FunkEngine]

I dont use Zoe stuff but isn't it intended to be used with the Zeovit system? Anyhow, a full 1 dkh swing is pretty intense and will stunt growth as well as starving them with Ultra Low Nutrients like everyone said. Try to skim dryer and see what happens.

I'm running the zeolite media as well, I suppose I should add, which from what I understand constitutes a zeo system.

The 1 dkh swing is over the course of a year. It fluctuates about .1 every month.

 

[ChiCity]

corals are starving...
fluctuations are compounding the issue too

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

What type of frags?

Have you used a par meter?

 

[FunkEngine]

corals are starving...
fluctuations are compounding the issue too

.1 a month is too much? I had figured that was pretty tight control. I've considered dosing nitrates, but I wanted to try the zeo system first.

What type of frags?

Have you used a par meter?

I'll try to borrow one tomorrow.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

.1 a month is too much? I had figured that was pretty tight control. I've considered dosing nitrates, but I wanted to try the zeo system first.



I'll try to borrow one tomorrow.

I have had two leds, that no matter what intensity I set them at, I had no growth. Little corraline etc. even green algaes would not grow. So spectrum is an issue.

 

[ChiCity]

.1 a month is too much? I had figured that was pretty tight control. I've considered dosing nitrates, but I wanted to try the zeo system first.



I'll try to borrow one tomorrow.

My bad, I thought you were bouncing 1DkH
But definitely get your trates up, and as salty mentioned, check your lights and their par/spectrums

 

[lilchris_357]

How familar are you with Zeovit? Just asking to see if you are aware of the side effects from running that system.

 

[FunkEngine]

How familar are you with Zeovit? Just asking to see if you are aware of the side effects from running that system.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I know a decent amount. I know that it creates and maintains an ultra low nutrient system. Since I already had low nutrients I had figured that the supplements designed to feed the corals in that environment would be beneficial. I also know it is typically known for the pale pastel colors it creates. And that its known for fairly productive/successful tanks.

Pastel colors and growth would be a great improvement to almost white with lightly colored polyps or brown and no growth.

 

[lilchris_357]

Okay, just didn't want to go into something that you already know. Do you have nuisance algae growing? Can you post pics of your corals?

 

[dangros]

There are tons of variables and even more advise as to the solution. If nothing has died in a year, I suspect that you're water quality is good but there isn't enough of the right light. I had mixed results for two years until I swapped out my 2 kessils for 2 GHL Mitras. More power and better spread seemed to start growth in stubborn sps's which did almost nothing for 2 years.
Do you have any fish?

 

[SlvrZ]

i'm interested to see the light setup, i know with me when i switched to t5 my polyps extended the most i ever saw and the coraline algae just exploded.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Your corals are probably starving to death.

I was having problems similar to yours (pale corals, browning due to stress of starvation when I thought it was maybe my lighting), the big 3 (Alk, Calc and Mag) all looked stable and in line. I was running zeovit at first, then moved to prodibio. When I ditched prodibio I always focused on keeping nutrients low. I visited some of the really nice coral shops in Orlando and talked to some very large online vendors that sell high end SPS as their primary source of business. I'll tell you exactly what they told me!

Ditch that ULNS crap, you're not good enough for it. Yes, sorry to sound mean but this exact thing was said to me and I have to admit was absolutely correct. You just admitted that you're no expert (not a bad thing, not many are) and you're trying to attempt one of the most difficult ways of maintaining a reef. ULNS gives very very little room for error; people are always checking for ALK, Calc, and Mag only to see their corals wither away thinking params or lighting is the culprit and at the end of the day the corals are starving to death.

Go back to making it simple.

I turned off my carbon, turned off my GFO, fed the tank more and just did simple water changes weekly. I have a calc reactor and that's it; after 2 weeks everything started bouncing back and i'm back to buying sps frags in bulk again. Colors look great, my nitrates are 10-15, po4 is 0.02-08 and there isn't a lick of algae in the tank or on the rocks. Yes, I clean my glass daily but that's also due to 75x turnover in the display.

If you decide to stick with ULNS then remember this:

You're stuck keeping alk below 8.0 and risk a major tank wide event if you lose track and see it bump to 8.5 or 9
You HAVE to keep up with daily feedings for corals as they have nothing else to feed
Lighting has little to no room for error with a stripped water column
You don't know what's in those food vials, you're completely at the mercy of what those instructions tell you
You're paying extra money every month for dead corals just like you would do if you didn't run it

Unique corals has a great post in their sponsor forums talking about how the industry is starting to see massive success with SPS; they mention that people are finally embracing the fact that you DON'T need to strip the water clean for SPS. Just take a look at WWC, they run with a decent amount of nutrients. I'm not sure where this ULNS fad came from as I personally have not been in the hobby longer than 10 years to know where the trends shifted but I wish I followed this advice when I started; I would have saved myself so much freaking money. Props to people who can make ULNS work, it's not something I feel is sustainable long term for anyone that I wouldn't consider an expert.

Advice:

Take any nutrient control devices offline
Think about putting skimmer on timer and turning it off every other day or once a week to start
Get more fish
Feed more (maybe think about auto feeder and feed really small 3-4 times daily)
Ditch those bottles once you see nutrients, other than coral vitalizer which in my experience is the only product from zeo I see results with (IME of course).

 

[jda]

I am really a believer that low N and P tanks need low Alk and need to be blasted with light - I am talking like 400W/HQI, 8-10 bulb T5 or 2-3 Radions per 2x2 area type of blasting, not what manufacturers think is blasting. Of course we don't know how intense your lights are being DIY and PAR is a joke (mostly).

I run my reef LN, not ULN and color and growth is as good as I can get it. I do use HQI and VHO, though, along with .1 N and .005-.01P which near near natural seawater. You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to have a good reason and be deliberate to be ULN... maybe only if you are already top 3-5% and want to get into the top 1% for a while. ULN is really hard and mostly unnecessary, IMO.

If you are still struggling, stop all of the dosing that you cannot test for, go basic Berlin with N under 5 and P under .1. Don't use any GFO unless you get over .1 and you have a Hannah Low Range tester to make sure that your results are accurate. Do routine water changes. If that does nothing, then change your lights - see if you can borrow some so that you can use yours again if nothing changes. Nearly nobody can screw up low(ish) nutrient Berlin with proven lights... but it takes time and patience and people don't have that in spades anymore.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I've been in this hobby a long time and up till not long ago, no NO3 and no PO4 were preached as gospel. I never followed that thinking.

So many hobbyist, all those years, where killing corals and spending ungodly amounts of money controlling nutrients down to 0 because they were told to by ill informed LFS employees or hobbyists that don't fully understand how to keep a reef.

Not to mention all the hobbyists that have given up the hobby because "my corals all died"! I fully understand why. I have heard new hobbyists on the forums struggle keeping corals following this backward thinking. None of the "masters" of this hobby follow this "ULNS" craziness. Read and learn:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.263/

These guys have been in the hobby a LONG time and quite successful keeping corals by feeding their corals nitrates and a little phosphates. Not starving them.

Me NO3 15-20, PO4 at trace. Corals doing exceptionally well and very healthy.

Feed you corals people!

Happy reefing!

 

[BigJohnny]

corals are starving, especially if you have intense light. Also your alk should be below 8 if running zeo/ulns. Its also possible that they are getting too much light and are shutting down photosynthesis. My advice would be to add more fish and/or feed more first and see what happens. You could also gradually lower your alk and keep it around 8 unless your nutrients get much higher. I had a starving tank a few years ago and whenever my alk went above 8 i would see issues. I also had very slow growth regardless. PAR meter is not a bad idea either, it is very easy to overlight your corals with leds.