Carbocalcium long term viability concerns

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I have been using Carbocalcium for the last few months and never had any problems with it but what I have noticed is a continuous downward trend in my Alkalinity. It never truly holds steady and I have to keep increasing the dose. Now I get that this is probably normal due to coral growth but the rate of consumption seems far out of proportion to the corals I have and how much they have grown in the time I have been using it. I have a red sea reefer 350 which I am making into an sps dominated system. There are quite a few sps frags but they haven't grown massively into big colonies or anything yet but in the last 3 months I have had to increase the Carbocalcium dose by about 25ml a day and it still keeps dropping about 0.3 dkh every two or 3 days. I have topped up the alkalinity with bicarobonate a few times to get it back to 8 but it still drops again and I don't want to have to use multiple products.

According to their calculator, the baseline dose in my system would be 17.5 ml. I am currently dosing 70ml a day and fast approaching the maximum dose of 87.5ml per day. Considering that my aim is to have this tank rammed with big grown out Acropora colonies I cant see how this is going to be a viable solution long term. Considering how my corals are just now and the consumption I am getting I would expect consumption to be 2 or 3 x the maximum stated dose for a tank filled with will sps the way I want. Surely this would be dangerous?

I was hoping to just keep using calcium formate and avoid having to move to a calcium reactor but I don't think that is going to work.

 

[GlassMunky]

I have been using Carbocalcium for the last few months and never had any problems with it but what I have noticed is a continuous downward trend in my Alkalinity. It never truly holds steady and I have to keep increasing the dose. Now I get that this is probably normal due to coral growth but the rate of consumption seems far out of proportion to the corals I have and how much they have grown in the time I have been using it. I have a red sea reefer 350 which I am making into an sps dominated system. There are quite a few sps frags but they haven't grown massively into big colonies or anything yet but in the last 3 months I have had to increase the Carbocalcium dose by about 25ml a day and it still keeps dropping about 0.3 dkh every two or 3 days. I have topped up the alkalinity with bicarobonate a few times to get it back to 8 but it still drops again and I don't want to have to use multiple products.

According to their calculator, the baseline dose in my system would be 17.5 ml. I am currently dosing 70ml a day and fast approaching the maximum dose of 87.5ml per day. Considering that my aim is to have this tank rammed with big grown out Acropora colonies I cant see how this is going to be a viable solution long term. Considering how my corals are just now and the consumption I am getting I would expect consumption to be 2 or 3 x the maximum stated dose for a tank filled with will sps the way I want. Surely this would be dangerous?

I was hoping to just keep using calcium formate and avoid having to move to a calcium reactor but I don't think that is going to work.

are you only dosing Calcium and NOT dosing ALK?
EDIT: Just realized its supposed to do both of those. thought it was just calcium and not both like their ALL For Reef.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

It is all for reef just without the trace. I add those separately.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You really aren't dosing much, IMO. Only 1.5 dKH per day. Low, IMO.

I do not see any reason to conclude that there is a problem. The max dose many manufacturers set is not because it becomes dangerous, but because many people think that if some is good, more must be better.

Let's assume you have a water volume of 70 gallons (close enough?).

You are adding 70 mL per day.

The liquid product has an effective alkalinity of 5600 dKH.

70 mL added to 70 gallons (265,000 mL) will boost alk by 70 x 5600/265000 = 1.5 dKH.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I'm in the UK so 350 litres works out to be 92.4 Us Gallons.

So one ml of carbocalcium in RO is 5600 dkh if am I understanding you correctly.

70 x 5600/350000ml = 1.12

So it's even less than 1.5 dkh day Obviously a bit less water due to rock and sand etc.

I thought it was much stronger than that. The recommended doses are really quite low then. Wouldn't there be some kind of issue with oxygen if I ended up dosing over twice the maximum recommended dosage?

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Im confused it says 1000 ml CARBOCALCIUM contains 40,000 mg calcium and 5,600 °carbonate hardness.

So is it 5600 dhk per 1ml or per 1000ml?

And according to the calculation their recommended maximum dose of 87.5 would only be 1.4dkh a day in my tank.

I'm in the UK so 350 litres works out to be 92.4 Us Gallons.

So one ml of carbocalcium in RO is 5600 dkh if am I understanding you correctly.

70 x 5600/350000ml = 1.12

So it's even less than 1.5 dkh day Obviously a bit less water due to rock and sand etc.

I thought it was much stronger than that. The recommended doses are really quite low then. Wouldn't there be some kind of issue with oxygen if I ended up dosing over twice the maximum recommended dosage?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Im confused it says 1000 ml CARBOCALCIUM contains 40,000 mg calcium and 5,600 °carbonate hardness.

So is it 5600 dhk per 1ml or per 1000ml?

And according to the calculation their recommended maximum dose of 87.5 would only be 1.4dkh a day in my tank.

Both. lol

dKH is independent of volume. It already has a volume unit in it, and 5600 dKH is very similar to a two part (my DIY is 5300 dKH).

Just like when you report your tank dKH, it is just dKH, not dKH per mL or liter or whatever.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I see.

So the maximum stated dosage has no real meaning. I can just keep dosing greater and greater amounts of this stuff as my demand increases?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I see.

So the maximum stated dosage has no real meaning. I can just keep dosing greater and greater amounts of this stuff as my demand increases?

It has no real meaning to me. I'm not sure how they picked it or what their rationale is.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I am up to 100ml per day now and its still not maintaining stable alkalinity. Something must be wrong here.

 

[GlassMunky]

@Lou Ekus

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Tropic Marin picked the max dose based on O2 depletion concerns, not whether it provides too much alkalinity.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Both. lol

dKH is independent of volume. It already has a volume unit in it, and 5600 dKH is very similar to a two part (my DIY is 5300 dKH).

Just like when you report your tank dKH, it is just dKH, not dKH per mL or liter or whatever.

Any idea what the actual concentration of ATI essentials pro is? It says 27.300 dkh per set but what does that mean? Per 2 litres? If I plug 27300 into the above calculations it works out way higher than what the online calculator says I need.

For example, my 350L tank now has a consumption of roughly 2dkh per day so the ATI essentials calculator says I need 49ml of the undiluted mixture to meet this consumption. It would require 125ml of carbocalcuim per day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any idea what the actual concentration of ATI essentials pro is? It says 27.300 dkh per set but what does that mean? Per 2 litres? If I plug 27300 into the above calculations it works out way higher than what the online calculator says I need.

For example, my 350L tank now has a consumption of roughly 2dkh per day so the ATI essentials calculator says I need 49ml of the undiluted mixture to meet this consumption. It would require 125ml of carbocalcuim per day.

Where do you see that?

dKH is not per volume. My DIY is 5,300 dKH, for example, whether that is 1 ml or a swimming pool full.

But 27,300 dKH seems above the solubility limit of sodium carbonate, so I am suspicious of the interpretation.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Essentials pro » ATI-Aquaristik

It says Highly concentrated (27.300 °dKH and 195.000 mg calcium per set), ready to use.