Carbon Dosing (Vinegar only) and skimmate

[TheClark]

Wow TheClark, either you have a lot of phosphates or low nitrates, assuming bacteria consumes nitrates to phosphates at 15:1.

I really wish I tested the tank prior to starting carbon dosing but oh well. I really should be testing anyway, mainly for my curiosity, but I just made an online order and won't need another one for months.

Indeed, I have a monumental phosphate leaching rock battle on my hands. Vinegar dosing was a huge success though with the nitrates. Many would highly recommend test kits while carbon dosing especially in the beginning when dialing it in.

Good luck!

 

[Reefing Madness]

I dose vodka, and I watched how much at the end I was dosing, and how long it took 180ppm nitrates to come down. I can safely guess what a tank will need to get the nitrates to start to fall, can't do it with vinegar, I dosed vinegar for a few weeks but when I was throwing in 80mls at a time, that became to much for me, and I stopped that one and went back to vodka.

Also, with regards to carbon dosing taking care of phosphates, this occurs much much more slowly than with nitrates, I had phosphates at 10.00 and vodka dosing at 40mls wouldn't touch that number.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Indeed, I have a monumental phosphate leaching rock battle on my hands. Vinegar dosing was a huge success though with the nitrates. Many would highly recommend test kits while carbon dosing especially in the beginning when dialing it in.

Good luck!

If your having that much issue with phosphate leaching, might I recommend using Sea Klear phosphate remover. I still use it to this day, and to me, its cheaper than GFO and you don't have to worry about keeping an eye on it like GFO exhausting. Itcan clear your tank up right quickly. But at first it will leave the bound phosphate in the tank, looking like stringy crap, just clean it up, once you've gotten the numbers where they need to be, you will not see the stringy garbage anymore.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy - I know you say the rate to which vinegar is raised (On the chart) is pretty conservative, but what do you think of the endpoint dosage (The largest dose, that I assume stays at that dosage from then on)? Is that a max dose overall, or a conservative max dose, given a (Boy, this is going to be vague and I apologize!) a high bioload/stocked tank?

The endpoint dosage doesn't make sense to me. Same dose for a 25 and a 1000 gallon tank?

Personally, I'd pretty much ignore the chart.

I presently dose about 110 mL vinegar per day on my 120 (300 or so gallons total water volume).

I dosed as high as 410 mL per day, but that was clearly too much and caused numerous issues such as hazy water, algae actually growing faster, browning of some inverts, etc.

 

[TheClark]

If your having that much issue with phosphate leaching, might I recommend using Sea Klear phosphate remover. I still use it to this day, and to me, its cheaper than GFO and you don't have to worry about keeping an eye on it like GFO exhausting. Itcan clear your tank up right quickly. But at first it will leave the bound phosphate in the tank, looking like stringy crap, just clean it up, once you've gotten the numbers where they need to be, you will not see the stringy garbage anymore.

After 200 dollars worth of GFo, Po4x4, Phosguard I 100% agree. None of these could touch it. 150 gallon water change did nothing, they bounced right back.

Seaklear is amazing. I have been dosing a seaklear equivalent and it is just wiping out the phosphate, so effective I have to be careful.

Great stuff, thanks for getting the information out there to people with the same issues.

Phosphate leaching rocks can definitely take the fun out of reefing.

 

[Electrobes]

Should I start (as I am currently doing) from the beginning with vinegar if I am currently a Prodibio user? My next dose for it is next week... But I me stopping it's use until I decide to use vinegar long term. Or, should I be somewhere further down the chart and use a larger dose, since it already am a carbon source user?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Should I start (as I am currently doing) from the beginning with vinegar if I am currently a Prodibio user? My next dose for it is next week... But I me stopping it's use until I decide to use vinegar long term. Or, should I be somewhere further down the chart and use a larger dose, since it already am a carbon source user?

I don't know what carbon source goes along with that system. Having a lot of bacteria revved up to eat one organic may not help that much with another if they don't eat the new one.

That said, I'd tend to skip down the chart a bit anyway, since it seems unnecessarily slow to me.

 

[baderawartani]

he
y

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi

 

[afkhamei]

Bryan

 

[Electrobes]

So out of observational fun I've been dosing at about 15mL per day and the skimmate has been high quality and quantity for the past week or two.

While I still get good quality, the quantity (That I see) is slowing down... Slowly. I've since left the dose at its current 20 mL (Started two days ago).

I'll wait and see where the trend ends up but as of now I will stay with the 20mL a day dosage.

I've kept my feeding the same this whole time (Flake in the morning (New Era) and one Mysis cube in the afternoon (I rinse it out twice in rodi water). I have 6 fish thus far but plan to increase to about 8-9 in the near future which will add to the bio load.

So far my tank looks great and the corals have been super happy. I'd post a pic but I am waiting at the vet for my dog's check up to be completed.

I should remind everyone I have a 100G half cylinder with a 40G sump, an oversized skimmer, a 4x4x8 block of marine pure (recent addition), and a think sponge block to catch debris before going into the return pump. My flow in the sump is about 2300gph that goes right back to the tank. I don't directly feed the corals, but I do dose Acro power as instructed on the bottle. The tank is Monti Digi specific plus has a yellow Fiji leather, a transfer from an old tank. My current tank is about 2.5 months old with awesome coral growth so far.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Over time with organic carbon dosing, you may get more growth of bacteria on rocks and such and less in the water column, which might alter the skimmate.

You may also develop more organisms that feed on bacteria so they are not as much skimmed out.

 

[Electrobes]

Randy, I thought about that (No, I'm totally lying) and I agree with you (I have to, to cover my lying). :lol:

Aside from unwanted problem things like cyano, HA, etc.. Do any creatures/icky thingies consume any excess carbon in the tank?

As usual, thanks Randy!

 

[Electrobes]

Here's a pic of the skimmer, making me happy:

And the happy, though young, tank:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, I thought about that (No, I'm totally lying) and I agree with you (I have to, to cover my lying). :lol:

Aside from unwanted problem things like cyano, HA, etc.. Do any creatures/icky thingies consume any excess carbon in the tank?

As usual, thanks Randy!

You mean organic carbon like vinegar?

Yes, many things can consume it, including the zoox in corals, maybe corals themselves. Even algae may be able to take it up, since algae became worse with really large doses of vinegar I tried for a while (more than 1 mL per total system gallon, or more than 3 ml per display gallon).

And the bacteria may be able to be consumed in turn by many filter feeders, such as sponges. That's a big reason I use it.

 

[Electrobes]

Ah nice, I feel a little better despite me only adding 20mL per day. I just can't shake the feeling of it being a high dose.

 

[Electrobes]

I am, starting after I clean out the skimmer cup, going to keep track of the skimmate amount. It'll be a vague indicator, sure, but I am curious as to what changes it shows me based on different dosing amounts.

 

[reyesozaeta]

Any one ever used the “cleaning vinegar” for carbon dosing instead of regular vinegar? Regular vinegar has 5 percent acidity while the cleaning has 10 percent. There are no additives to it, same as regular vinegar just higher acidity. Anyone?

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I just use heinz vinegar. It has a pretty picture on the bottle, so, obviously it is higher quality than those without pictures.

Does the cleaning vinegar have a picture on it? If it is a picture of a dying acro I would not use it.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

After 200 dollars worth of GFo, Po4x4, Phosguard I 100% agree. None of these could touch it. 150 gallon water change did nothing, they bounced right back.

Seaklear is amazing. I have been dosing a seaklear equivalent and it is just wiping out the phosphate, so effective I have to be careful.

Great stuff, thanks for getting the information out there to people with the same issues.

Phosphate leaching rocks can definitely take the fun out of reefing.

clark.. what is the sea clear alternative? you have a link?

Are you the PNWMAS clark? this is pdxmonkeyboy.

.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any one ever used the “cleaning vinegar” for carbon dosing instead of regular vinegar? Regular vinegar has 5 percent acidity while the cleaning has 10 percent. There are no additives to it, same as regular vinegar just higher acidity. Anyone?

If it is adequately pure, you can use any concentration you want, up to pure acetic acid (100%).