CBB Injured

[PhilM]

My CBB has been in my 160g DT for about a month. Previously it spent 2 months in an observation tank making sure there were no visible diseases and getting trained to eat defrosted Mysis shrimp from a specialized CBB feeder. She would also pick at other frozen foods I tried her on but really ate the Mysis more than anything else. Initially on putting it into an isolation area in the DT then into the main DT it was doing quite well. It was eating some Mysis shrimp and other food with the rest of the fish and scavenging pods and other food from the rockwork and sand. It also was getting food from the specialized CBB feeder when desired without much interference from the rest of the fish. Eventually the rest of the fish caught on to the CBB feeder and swarmed her when she was getting food out of it. Over the last week she has used it less and less and is eating less when the other fish are feed. There is a good supply of pods in the tank and I replenish them every 2 to 3 days from the refugium. I had to switch to brine shrimp a week ago as I ran out of Mysis shrimp so there has been some change in available food. Yesterday she was listless. The same this morning but still picking at the rock work and her CBB feeder. She started swimming close to the top of the tank. At 1 PM she was like that, but 30 minutes ago I found her om the surface at the overflow grill. She is alive and not breathing deeply, but there is significant damage to her rear fins (picture below). I have removed her and placed her into a separate 5 g container with DT water and an air bubbler. I put in some brine shrimp and also a live rock with some aiptasia on it. She is barely moving now and is swimming slightly sideways with her snout up. I already have fish in my 10g quarantine/hospital tank and my 65 g observation tank.

I realize the picture I have included is not the best but hopefully good enough for you to make some suggestions. I am hoping to quickly get some ideas if I can put here in the 10g with the small yellow watchman gobby and pistol shrimp without risking disease to them and also how to treat her.

Any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks, in advance, Philip

 

[vetteguy53081]

My CBB has been in my 160g DT for about a month. Previously it spent 2 months in an observation tank making sure there were no visible diseases and getting trained to eat defrosted Mysis shrimp from a specialized CBB feeder. She would also pick at other frozen foods I tried her on but really ate the Mysis more than anything else. Initially on putting it into an isolation area in the DT then into the main DT it was doing quite well. It was eating some Mysis shrimp and other food with the rest of the fish and scavenging pods and other food from the rockwork and sand. It also was getting food from the specialized CBB feeder when desired without much interference from the rest of the fish. Eventually the rest of the fish caught on to the CBB feeder and swarmed her when she was getting food out of it. Over the last week she has used it less and less and is eating less when the other fish are feed. There is a good supply of pods in the tank and I replenish them every 2 to 3 days from the refugium. I had to switch to brine shrimp a week ago as I ran out of Mysis shrimp so there has been some change in available food. Yesterday she was listless. The same this morning but still picking at the rock work and her CBB feeder. She started swimming close to the top of the tank. At 1 PM she was like that, but 30 minutes ago I found her om the surface at the overflow grill. She is alive and not breathing deeply, but there is significant damage to her rear fins (picture below). I have removed her and placed her into a separate 5 g container with DT water and an air bubbler. I put in some brine shrimp and also a live rock with some aiptasia on it. She is barely moving now and is swimming slightly sideways with her snout up. I already have fish in my 10g quarantine/hospital tank and my 65 g observation tank.

I realize the picture I have included is not the best but hopefully good enough for you to make some suggestions. I am hoping to quickly get some ideas if I can put here in the 10g with the small yellow watchman gobby and pistol shrimp without risking disease to them and also how to treat her.

Any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks, in advance, Philip

In lieu of injury, this may be a result of severe aggression leading to rot andvv by erosion
What other occupy are in the tank with it?
Treatment will be a gamble to restore the tissue but isolate and treat with either seachem kanaplex or Maracyn 2
Increase aeration during treatment with air stone and maintain good water quality

 

[PhilM]

The CBB is breathing heavier and seems to have lost her orientation. I have placed her in the 10g hospital tank as she was not doing well at all in the smaller container. The 10g has a HOB filter and more water movement. The extra delay allowed me to get the salinity and temperature pretty much aligned with the DT she was in. This looks more like a physical injury than anything else as time goes on, but I look forward to your suggestions.
Hopefully she hangs on.
Philip

 

[PhilM]

There are 3 tangs, a foxface, 3 clowns, a coral beauty, 3 damsels and a mandarin dragonet in the DT. She was with the coral beauty in the observation tank for 2 months before both introduced to the DT. There are also a variety of BT anemones in the DT. While the other fish are aggressive for food, none have shown any aggression directly to the CBB.

I have removed the Yellow watchman gobby, the pistol shrimp, the main rock and the few snails from the 10g and added seachem kanaplex to the water in the 10g. I have removed the carbon filter from the HOB filter. There is still Ca based sand in the tank. Should it also be removed?

 

[PhilM]

Sorry, what does BBB mean?
Philip

 

[PhilM]

She seems to have completely lost orientation and her efforts to right herself are weakening. I have never had a fish recover from anywhere close to this state of distress/ damage. I guess there is nothing more to do than hope.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

She seems to have completely lost orientation and her efforts to right herself are weakening. I have never had a fish recover from anywhere close to this state of distress/ damage. I guess there is nothing more to do than hope.

Sorry to see.

That fin damage had to have gotten started by some mechanical factor - either another fish attacking it (damsels?) or getting caught up against a pump intake, something like that.

Also, despite it eating for you, the fish is pretty thin. That makes it more susceptible to being picked on, other health issues, etc.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry, what does BBB mean?
Philip

BBB is a product of stupid Iphone which does this to me occasionally.

 

[vetteguy53081]

There are 3 tangs, a foxface, 3 clowns, a coral beauty, 3 damsels and a mandarin dragonet in the DT. She was with the coral beauty in the observation tank for 2 months before both introduced to the DT. There are also a variety of BT anemones in the DT. While the other fish are aggressive for food, none have shown any aggression directly to the CBB.

I have removed the Yellow watchman gobby, the pistol shrimp, the main rock and the few snails from the 10g and added seachem kanaplex to the water in the 10g. I have removed the carbon filter from the HOB filter. There is still Ca based sand in the tank. Should it also be removed?

Clowns and/or damsels my suspect.
I would NOT rely on ammonioa badge for water quality but physically test the water
What foods are you feeding it?

 

[PhilM]

Unfortunately the CBB did not make it. I would really like to know what happened.

I have a Trident and do a set of additional tests every Sunday including ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates, Ca and Mg. Getting late here now. Other fish in the DT look fine so will do the tests tomorrow as usual.

As to food: the fish are usually feed frozen Mysis shrimp, now brine shrimp as that was what I could get last time, with a combination of a fish rich mixture with some greens also frozen into cubes 2x/day plus a morning feeding of pellets and usually once a day Norrie sheets. They also get occasional blood worms and other treats. There is a good supply of pods in the DT that gets refreshed from the refugium every 2 or 3 days. Additionally there is weekly phytoplankton.

I agree that she was loosing weight over the last week or so. Also she started swimming listlessly on Friday. She was not competing with the other fish for food during the regular feedings and even though she had access to the CBB feeder she was being outcompeted there after the other fish figured out they could nudge it and get food out of it.

This is the 2nd CBB I have had. The first ate well with the other fish and did well for several years until it died of an injury/sting. I thought I understood the difficulty with getting the CBBs to eat so I got a fish that was visibly eating and put it in the observation tank for training. Initially it ate clams and other live food and then I moved it on to frozen Mysis shrimp both free in the water and in a CBB feeder. She was in the 65g observation tank for almost 9 weeks with a coral beauty and cloud wrasse before I moved her to an isolated portion of the DT for 5 days. There she seemed to exist well on the frozen Mysis, pods and a few occasional live treats like clams. She readily ate from the CBB feeder as well during this time. The coral beauty and a clown were with her in the isolation area. Once in the main tank I tried feeding the other fish at the one end of the DT and putting free food and the CBB at the other end for her. This worked for a while but the foxface and one clown figured out how to get food out of the CBB feeder by nudging it and then the other fish all came. This happened in the last week. From then, she was getting a limited amount of food from the regular feedings and CBB feeder and poking around the rockwork a lot for pods. I think you are right in that she was not getting enough food and likely was starving slowly.

I suppose in her weakened state she was susceptible to attack from other fish and also may have been caught up on the overflow weir, either, or both, giving her the physical injuries that she suffered this afternoon. I am feeling very sad for her demise and very guilty for not properly taking care of her. Although I really think the CBB adds a lot of color and character to the tank it seems not to suitable if it cannot get enough food with the other fish there. The CBB feeder did not work to exclusively give her a source of food. Unless there are proven methods to have them in a competitive food situation I think she will be my last CBB.

Thank you for your help Jay.

CBB Feeder

 

[PhilM]

Jay,

One last question. is it ok to put the yellow watchman gobby, the pistol shrimp and the snails back in the 10g after a 50% water change or should I completely clean the 10g hospital tank first? 250 mg (2 level scoops) of Kanaplan was mixed into the 10g water as per the instructions on the box.

 

[PhilM]

Please ignore the last question. I did a little more research and based on what I found completely cleaned the 10g hospital tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Please ignore the last question. I did a little more research and based on what I found completely cleaned the 10g hospital tank.

Hi, I just woke up....

Copperbands are very delicate, and if they were collected in certain regions (Indonesia or the Philippines), they are even more so. I try to get them direct from Australia when I can, and those do much better.

I reread this thread....I'm thinking you're correct and the fin damage came from being stuck to an intake screen - the damage was broader than fish attacks typically are.

I don't think this is a water quality issue of any sort. The CBB could have had some internal disease, or it could have just been the "failure to thrive" that we see so often with these.

Jay

 

[PhilM]

Thanks Jay. I really appreciate your timely and knowledgeable responses.