CC Voodoo Majick- Residual Nutrients

jda · Apr 8, 2023

I am an iron doser - my chaeto needs it. Otherwise, I am not sure that there is any real evidence that most of this is necessary. Even if I knew a number, I would not likely dose any of it since I still see things that don't make sense. I tried the iodate, potassium and all of that to no avail. I just let the IO add back whatever traces are in it and it has worked for decades... no testing necessary. My CaRx can add back whatever else I need.

How do you have any copper? Some forms bind to aragonite. Others to organics and get removed with GAC, skimmers, etc.

I just have too many questions.

Reefahholic · Apr 9, 2023

Dburr1014 said:
Which do you think is right and why do you think that?

Right as in what?

Reefahholic · Apr 9, 2023

jda said:
I am an iron doser - my chaeto needs it. Otherwise, I am not sure that there is any real evidence that most of this is necessary. Even if I knew a number, I would not likely dose any of it since I still see things that don't make sense. I tried the iodate, potassium and all of that to no avail. I just let the IO add back whatever traces are in it and it has worked for decades... no testing necessary. My CaRx can add back whatever else I need.

How do you have any copper? Some forms bind to aragonite. Others to organics and get removed with GAC, skimmers, etc.

I just have too many questions.

Iron is good! I target 0.8 - 1.0 ug/L. Yeah, for sure just water changes and calcium reactor can work and grow corals.

I dose Copper daily. .005 ug/L which at the potency I’m dosing equates to 1 mL in my 100/G.

Dburr1014 · Apr 9, 2023

Reefahholic said:
Anyway here’s the difference between ICP-OES vs ICP-MS. As you can see below…the sensitivity with MS is much better. It has definitely changed my reef for the better, but it’s not for everybody.

In your comment you said the sensitivity is better than the other and one of them is better overall. Because the sensitivity is better does that mean you feel it's more accurate? Why or why not?

I don't see a correlation of sensitivity being more or less accurate. Have you compared them to other test kits?

Reefahholic · Apr 9, 2023

Dburr1014 said:
In your comment you said the sensitivity is better than the other and one of them is better overall. Because the sensitivity is better does that mean you feel it's more accurate? Why or why not?

I don't see a correlation of sensitivity being more or less accurate. Have you compared them to other test kits?

ICP-MS is significantly more sensitive. About 10,000X lower detection limits compared to ICP-OES. Yes, it’s absolutely more accurate.

To answer your last question…of course we’ve compared them with many other analyses. You must not have seen the comparison above. Even though companies like OCEAMO are running a very sensitive Agilent ICP-OES machine with axial plasma viewing for best sensitivity, there’s still many metallic trace elements in the "ultra trace" concentration range that are below a trustworthy limit of detection. So most of us control freaks have moved to ICP-MS. I’ve seen enough to say they are pretty darn good. Technology has definitely improved.

jda · Apr 9, 2023

I change water because I am cheap and lazy. I only have to make one assumption... that the chemists at Aquarium Pharm know what they are doing. This assumption has been good for decades.

I don't like to test. I don't like to buy test kits. I don't like to buy, inventory and throw away chemicals when they expire and learn how much to add and do maths. I don't like to make assumptions about purity of many things, what compounds of this react to that or the accuracy of a test. I nearly never believe that new things are as good, or better, than the old ones - I am sure that MS is better than OES, but will there be a new 2-3 letter test next year that is not only more sensitive but also more accurate? I will let you all figure it out and then might jump on board in a decade when it is ironed out. I have missed a lot of trouble over the years with this attitude of no new products or methodologies for at least 5 years. Early LEDs, early DC pumps, trends with all of the sexy additives of the day, etc. saved me a lot of trouble.

$32 for 200 (well, more like 170) gallons of mixed IO is just cheaper and easier than most everything else that I have ever seen. I have pumps for years with old Iwaki and PanWorld pumps (noisy and not fit for daily use, but great for moving water) and hoses and all that I do is flip a switch or two anymore.

Make no mistake... I am not discounting these tests. They are just not for me. I have a good friend and he does all of this - he had perhaps the best answer that I ever heard which is that he just loves to test and tinker... but even he does not fully trust all of it.

Reefahholic · Apr 11, 2023

Sometimes the safest way to run a reef is to keep it as minimal as possible.

Max93 · Apr 12, 2023

I’m all for ICP. My frags are finally encrusting and branching after 17 years of killing every frag I’ve bought. I think that if someone runs a calcium reactor it needs to be acknowledged that calcium reactors also dose trace… unless I’m incorrect but my understanding is that the calcium reactor media contains trace elements.
For example people that run moonshine method with calcium reactors have much lower and less frequent corrections to make.

Reefahholic · Apr 12, 2023

Max93 said:
I’m all for ICP. My frags are finally encrusting and branching after 17 years of killing every frag I’ve bought. I think that if someone runs a calcium reactor it needs to be acknowledged that calcium reactors also dose trace… unless I’m incorrect but my understanding is that the calcium reactor media contains trace elements.
For example people that run moonshine method with calcium reactors have much lower and less frequent corrections to make.

Correct. Well, really only if the media is natural coral bones like the classic TLF reborn. A calcium reactor definitely doesn’t add back everything like some people think.

I personally like running a reactor just because I hardly need to do anything with it. Couple tweaks here and there and that’s about it for months. If they didn’t dump CO2 into the system they would be gold.

I do agree that having the knowledge from a good ICP really helps with Chemistry, and results in healthier corals as long as you have nutrient management in check.

Max93 · Apr 12, 2023

Reefahholic said:
Correct. Well, really only if the media is natural coral bones like the classic TLF reborn. A calcium reactor definitely doesn’t add back everything like some people think.

I personally like running a reactor just because I hardly need to do anything with it. Couple tweaks here and there and that’s about it for months. If they didn’t dump CO2 into the system they would be gold.

I do agree that having the knowledge from a good ICP really helps with Chemistry, and results in healthier corals as long as you have nutrient management in check.

Definitely, nutrients is another thing for sure. But overall, I think the trace is very important and often overlooked