Looking for a little guidance - Nitrates

[PPBlimpy]

1ml per dose 10 total. I was dosing 20ml total but dialed it back when NO3 reached 10 ppm

Ok that is what I thought just wanted to clarify.
Thank you !!

sorry for muddying up the thread OP

 

[Dan_P]

Nothing ….hobby tested “zero” no3 is fine and preferably! Some examples of my tanks from today and back to the 90’s all had hobby tested zero nitrates.

Unfortunately, these examples are well stocked and probably well established aquaria.

The question here is whether a new system, barely stocked starting to show signs of strong algae growth, but pre-dinoflgellate infestation should maintain a nitrate level. Are you saying that the common wisdom to avoid dinoflagellates by keeping nitrates elevated is misguided?

 

[taterfish]

Thank you all for the information you provided!

I feel i will have to add another fish to the tank, the reason for the nitrate dosing is for the corals that i do have look much happier having the added nitrate.

 

[CHSUB]

Unfortunately, these examples are well stocked and probably well established aquaria.

The question here is whether a new system, barely stocked starting to show signs of strong algae growth, but pre-dinoflgellate infestation should maintain a nitrate level. Are you saying that the common wisdom to avoid dinoflagellates by keeping nitrates elevated is misguided? Yes!

My most recent aquarium started with dry rock and dry gravel and always had undetectable no3. Algae growth including dinoflagellate are best controlled with low nutrients, controlled feeding, maintenance and manual removal.

 

[Dan_P]

My most recent aquarium started with dry rock and dry gravel and always had undetectable no3. Algae growth including dinoflagellate are best controlled with low nutrients, controlled feeding, maintenance and manual removal.

To help me design experiments studying dinoflagellate growth (selecting factors and their levels) , I need to clarify the terms you are using.

Nutrients = nitrate+phosphate?
What is “controlled feeding”?
What is included in the term “maintenance”?
“Physical removal” I get

Thanks!

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

you can buy nitrate on amazon for cheap and dose as needed.

 

[CHSUB]

Nutrients = nitrate+phosphate?
What is “controlled feeding”?
What is included in the term “maintenance”?

Yes, somewhat ambiguous terms.

I like to expand the term nutrients to include untestable components, with no3 and po4 being the overall picture. If those aren’t low I assume the aquarium has an over abundance of “nutrients”.

“Controlled feeding” is absolutely no fish food goes uneaten. I turn off all pumps and only add enough food for about 5 seconds. A single cube for 7 fish last about 3 days.

“Maintenance” includes weekly wc, turkey basting, scrubbing rock, sock cleaning, sand vacuuming and detritus removal. I don’t allow any algae or detritus to accumulate.

 

[Dan_P]

Yes, somewhat ambiguous terms.

I like to expand the term nutrients to include untestable components, with no3 and po4 being the overall picture. If those aren’t low I assume the aquarium has an over abundance of “nutrients”.

“Controlled feeding” is absolutely no fish food goes uneaten. I turn off all pumps and only add enough food for about 5 seconds. A single cube for 7 fish last about 3 days.

“Maintenance” includes weekly wc, turkey basting, scrubbing rock, sock cleaning, sand vacuuming and detritus removal. I don’t allow any algae or detritus to accumulate.

Thank you. I got it.

The maintenance seems very thorough and something I have not considered as a testable factor. I’ve changed my mind.

Controlled feeding is a very disciplined approach. I need to explore this.

 

[Aqua Ultraviolet]

I’d avoid chasing a specific nitrate number with heavy daily dosing. A little nutrient uptake is normal in a young reef; focus on stable nutrients, good flow, and regular feeding. I’d also leave the Matrix for now and increase flow if detritus is settling in those corners.

 

[taterfish]

I’d avoid chasing a specific nitrate number with heavy daily dosing. A little nutrient uptake is normal in a young reef; focus on stable nutrients, good flow, and regular feeding. I’d also leave the Matrix for now and increase flow if detritus is settling in those corners.

Thank you, i am definitely taking the advice.

I stopped the dosing of the nitrate, cleaned the sand bed and tank. Reduced my feeding to feed what the fish will eat to keep my phosphates in range as well. I plan on adding another fish just debating on what will go well in the tank with the young clown pair. For flow, im going to have to get another wave maker that pulses to give the bottom corners a little bit more. Also going to beef up my clean up crew.

 

[Aqua Ultraviolet]

Thank you, i am definitely taking the advice.

I stopped the dosing of the nitrate, cleaned the sand bed and tank. Reduced my feeding to feed what the fish will eat to keep my phosphates in range as well. I plan on adding another fish just debating on what will go well in the tank with the young clown pair. For flow, im going to have to get another wave maker that pulses to give the bottom corners a little bit more. Also going to beef up my clean up crew.

That sounds like a solid approach. Reducing feeding should help keep nitrate and phosphate under control, while cleaning the sand bed removes accumulated detritus. Improving flow in the lower areas can also prevent dead spots where waste builds up. A stronger cleanup crew should help, but add livestock gradually and make sure the new fish is compatible with the clownfish pair and the tank’s size.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’d also leave the Matrix for now and increase flow if detritus is settling in those corners.

Why? What do you think it does that is useful?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you, i am definitely taking the advice.

I stopped the dosing of the nitrate, cleaned the sand bed and tank. Reduced my feeding to feed what the fish will eat to keep my phosphates in range as well. I plan on adding another fish just debating on what will go well in the tank with the young clown pair. For flow, im going to have to get another wave maker that pulses to give the bottom corners a little bit more. Also going to beef up my clean up crew.

Just FYI, I do not agree with that advice. Reducing feeding with zero nitrate any not dosing any N is not, IMO, a desirable plan.

 

[Aqua Ultraviolet]

Why? What do you think it does that is useful?

Mainly to help clean up leftover food, algae, and other organic waste that can accumulate in the tank. They’re not a replacement for maintenance, but they can help keep things cleaner between water changes and reduce buildup in areas I can’t easily reach.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Mainly to help clean up leftover food, algae, and other organic waste that can accumulate in the tank. They’re not a replacement for maintenance, but they can help keep things cleaner between water changes and reduce buildup in areas I can’t easily reach.

You think Seachem matrix does those things? Why?

 

[taterfish]

Thank you, i am definitely taking the advice.

I stopped the dosing of the nitrate, cleaned the sand bed and tank. Reduced my feeding to feed what the fish will eat to keep my phosphates in range as well. I plan on adding another fish just debating on what will go well in the tank with the young clown pair. For flow, im going to have to get another wave maker that pulses to give the bottom corners a little bit more. Also going to beef up my clean up crew.

Just FYI, I do not agree with that advice. Reducing feeding with zero nitrate any not dosing any N is not, IMO, a desirable plan.

So maybe i was dosing incorrectly with neonitro, i started very slow 1ml and thats just an increase of ~0.45ppm with a 20 gallon tank. I would do that morning and evening. I was testing nitrate and phos before dosing neonitro but after a few days of not seeing any increase on the salifert test i started increasing the amount of neonitro to 1.5ml to 2ml. The problem i was having, by morning it was depleted.

I feel with the constant up and down of the nitrate it was also starting to affect my candy cane coral.

I think were im struggling is finding that balance and to not have these up and down swings with the nitrate when i was dosing.

I also think my algae was sucking up more nitrates, so i ended up cleaning the whole tank back wall, sand bed.

Just trying to figure out how to keep everything happy, with keeping it simple.

 

[kratosxxl]

Water changes are a poor way to remove phosphate.

Drop in a bag of GFO if that is a concern, and pause the water changes for a few weeks. Test weekly and adjust. Youd be best to feed frozen, dry foods add alot of phos.

Interesting take , im feeding twice a day with Plank, mixed dry and freeze dried but my Phosphates stay in stable range

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So maybe i was dosing incorrectly with neonitro, i started very slow 1ml and thats just an increase of ~0.45ppm with a 20 gallon tank. I would do that morning and evening. I was testing nitrate and phos before dosing neonitro but after a few days of not seeing any increase on the salifert test i started increasing the amount of neonitro to 1.5ml to 2ml. The problem i was having, by morning it was depleted.

I feel with the constant up and down of the nitrate it was also starting to affect my candy cane coral.

I think were im struggling is finding that balance and to not have these up and down swings with the nitrate when i was dosing.

I also think my algae was sucking up more nitrates, so i ended up cleaning the whole tank back wall, sand bed.

Just trying to figure out how to keep everything happy, with keeping it simple.

Yes, the nitrate is being taken up as fast as you dose it. That does not, IMO, suggest that stopping it is a good plan since that is a potential recipe for dinos.

The increased clean up crew is a good plan to keep algae under control, but having green algae can reduce the potential for dinos to take over (which is a far worse issue than green algae).

 

[JonasRoman]

Tank is a 20 gallon with a HOB tidal 55 with floss and a sponge, with seachem matrix.

Salinity - 1.025
PH 8
Nitrate after dosing 2ppm
Phosphate .1 - .25 kind of hard to tell the shade of blue very light though.
Alk 7.7-8
Water change - every weekend 2 gallons, i have not been vacuuming my sand.
Fish 2 clowns
Invert 3 snails - 4 hermits - bristle worms (think i may need to add more CUC from dr reef)

My salifert test shows a clear reading of 0 to hardly anything for nitrate, so i began dosing neonitro to start increasing the nitrate. I started just small amounts 1ml, 1.5ml, now up to 2ml to finally get the water to read some nitrates on salifert test around 2ppm, but by morning the test will read back to 0. I'm also now getting some green algae on my sand bed but more in the corners (i may need to increase flow? / add another wave maker?) I also always test my phosphates before dosing nitrates, my phosphates have been holding consistent and i am not dosing that.

What do you guys recommend i do to try and keep my nitrate up? Daily dosing / testing? Remove the seachem matrix? I really do not want to get dinos :O any help is greatly appreciated!

I added a pic of my tank for any recommendations

I would not dose nitrate, its just a secondary parameter telling you if the nitrigen cycle is in balance, and with zero in nitrate it is, meaning nitrification is almost same as denitrification, and thats good. I do not think a coral will starve if you read zero nitrate as long as you have food input to the tank, like feeding corals and/or fish. The fish will produce ammonium which the coral likes much more than nitrate, so they will get what thy need even if you read zero in nitrate. Nitrate is also bad in too high levels (not an issue here, but just am example that nitrate itself is not the favourite stuff for the coral).

I still say its importns to measure nitrate, ofcourse, because an increasing nitrate tells you that nitrogen cyce is not in balancem, and you have to observe so it not passes a certain treshold (AMO its around 10-15 ppm).

So do nothing, and as you see, once you started dose nitrate you got algue, its not strange, it s agood food for algue, but quite bad food for a coral.
Its surprising me that manufacture sell nitrate addition. If you have nitrogen deficiency you should feed corals with coral food instead, and/or buy more fishes.

Jonas