Chaeto or Dragons Breath?

[SMSREEF]

I am not familiar with your system, but carbon dosing multiplies bacteria which in turn consume
N & P and are exported by protein skimmer. I have not used a protein skimmer for the last 40 years. I prefer utilitarian algae which also grows live food in a refugium. So I can nutrient recycle and nutrient export as needed.

Which macro do you grow as live food? For tangs? Or are you talking about pods growing in the macro?

If I were removing 1/2 my macro every week for nutrient control , I would choose chaeto. It’s just easier.

I had to take my skimmer out of my sump because nutrients were too low. Maybe coral or other organisms eat the extra bacteria from carbon dosing effect of DOC or extra bacteria are caught in my filter sock? Come to think of it, my sock does clog pretty fast nowadays.

Also, I keep an urchin in my refugium and do not export nutrients, the urchin eats the dragons breath and keeps it under control (recycling the nutrients). He eats all the chaeto I add. If nutrients start going up, he will go back to LFS. So more macros will grow.

Something must be using the DOC.
My 10 gallon Macro tank doesn’t have a skimmer either, just a simple HOB and powerhead. This tank I do need to trim the dragons breath, red ogo and chaeto to keep it under control.

 

[Subsea]

The new build will be deeper than I want to reach front to back. My plan is to grow some macro in the back quarter of the DS. Was also thinking dragon's breathe, which would likewise provide bonus tang food. I can still keep chaeto in the fuge. Maybe I should mix the dragons breathe with some red ozo as well?

If you like red, instead of Halymenia, try Red Grapes/Bortacladia.



First picture is recently arrived Red Grapes & Red Ogo in 120G display. Note bleaching from photo shock. Many of the Red Macros grow in deeper water, meaning reduced intensity as well as spectrum shift toward blue.

Marine Plants in the Aquarium

macroalgae, marine plants, caulerpa, refugium substrate, marine macroalgae for sale

www.marineplantbook.com

Botryocladia is a beautiful specimen that does very well in the marine aquarium. It features stiff, lightly calcified branches with bright red air bladders. It resembles a cluster of grapes and is sometimes referred to as Red Grape Caulerpa, although it is not a species of Caulerpa at all. Depending on the species, it can grow in rather large clumps attached to rocks and coral fragments in depths of up to 30 feet or more. It is very hardy and seems to do well in aquariums with good water quality and low to medium lighting. There are several varieties available in the aquarium trade, but identification can be difficult as they all have the same basic characteristics.​
	Aquarium Care Information​ Scientific Name: Botryocladia Sp. Common Name: Red Grape, Red Berries Origin: Gulf of Mexico, Atlantic, Pacific Depth Collected: 15-130 feet Maximum Height : 18" Growth Rate: Slow Light: Moderate Temperature: 78-84 Propagation: Fragmentation, sporulation Difficulty: Easy Food Value: Very palatable, is readily eaten by Tangs and other herbivores Nutrient Uptake: Good Flow Rate: Moderate
Copyright © 2010 GCE All rights reserved. No part of this online publication may be reproduced in any form by any means without the expressed permission of the author. All images are the property of Gulf Coast Ecosystems unless otherwise noted and should not be reproduced or distributed without permission.​

 

[Subsea]

Which macro do you grow as live food? For tangs? Or are you talking about pods growing in the macro?

If I were removing 1/2 my macro every week for nutrient control , I would choose chaeto. It’s just easier.

I had to take my skimmer out of my sump because nutrients were too low. Maybe coral or other organisms eat the extra bacteria from carbon dosing effect of DOC or extra bacteria are caught in my filter sock? Come to think of it, my sock does clog pretty fast nowadays.

Also, I keep an urchin in my refugium and do not export nutrients, the urchin eats the dragons breath and keeps it under control (recycling the nutrients). He eats all the chaeto I add. If nutrients start going up, he will go back to LFS. So more macros will grow.

Something must be using the DOC.
My 10 gallon Macro tank doesn’t have a skimmer either, just a simple HOB and powerhead. This tank I do need to trim the dragons breath, red ogo and chaeto to keep it under control.

Recycling nutrients includes pods and seaweed. I add ornamental seaweed to display tank with various macros: Red Grapes, Red Ogo. I also like emerald green of Caulerpa Prolifera as do the Tangs & Angels. One tang and one drawf Angel graze on seaweed biofilms as well as biomass of seaweed itself.

I use chaeto in the 30G refugium of 75 gallon display tank. The intake overflow box is full of pods & green grapes, Caulerpa Racemosa. I feed a lettuce clip with handful of green grapes & micro inverts.

Seaweed–microbial interactions: key functions of seaweed-associated bacteria

We have introduced a new topic in this area and suggested future research to understand seaweed-bacteria interactions in greater detail.

academic.oup.com

[The seaweed surface provides a suitable substratum for the settlement of microorgansims and also secretes various organic substances that function as nutrients for multiplication of bacteria and the formation of microbial biofilms (Steinberg et al., 2002; Staufenberger et al., 2008; Singh, 2013). Microbial communities living on the seaweed surface are highly complex, dynamic and consist of a consortium of microorganisms including bacteria, fungi, diatoms, protozoa, spores and larvae of marine invertebrates (Lachnit et al., 2009, 2011; Goecke et al., 2010; Burke et al., 2011a, b). Among them, bacteria are ubiquitous and occur either on the seaweed surface or in the cytosol of living host cells (Herbaspirillum sp. in Caulerpa taxifolia) and determine different stages of the life cycle of eukaryotic organisms including macroalgae (Delbridge et al., 2004; Burke et al., 2011a; Singh et al., 2011a, b, c). Quorum sensing (QS) signalling molecules produced by Gram-negative bacterial strains determine zoospores settlement in Ulva species (Joint et al., 2002) and spores liberation in Acrochaetium (Weinberger et al., 2007) and Gracilaria species (Singh, 2013). Thallusin, a bacterial metabolite, and nitrogen-fixing bacteria associated with seaweeds have also been found to be responsible for induction of morphogenesis and growth in marine macroalgae, respectively (Chisholm et al., 1996; Matsuo et al., 2005; Singh et al., 2011b). Macroalgae (as a host), also known to be ecosystem engineers, play critical roles in structuring of intertidal communities (Jones et al., 1994). Some water-soluble monosaccharides such as rhamnose, xylose, glucose, mannose and galactose are part of algal polysaccharides that constitute part of the cell wall (Popper et al., 2011) and the rest storage material (Lahaye & Axelos, 1993; Michel et al., 2010a, b). These algal polysaccharides are a potential source of carbon and energy for numerous marine bacteria (Hehemann et al., 2012) that produce specific molecules, which in turn facilitate seaweed–bacterial associations (Steinberg et al., 2002; Lachnit et al., 2013). Therefore, these interactions between seaweeds and bacteria have fascinated and attracted the attention of many researchers worldwide.]

.

 

[CMMorgan]

Recycling nutrients includes pods and seaweed. I add ornamental seaweed to display tank with various macros: Red Grapes, Red Ogo. I also like emerald green of Caulerpa Prolifera as do the Tangs & Angels. One tang and one drawf Angel graze on seaweed biofilms as well as biomass of seaweed itself.

I use chaeto in 30G refugiumthe of 75 gallon display. The intake overflow box is full of pods & green grapes, Caulerpa Racemosa. Lettuce clip with handful of green grapes & micro inverts.

[The seaweed surface provides a suitable substratum for the settlement of microorgansims and also secretes various organic substances that function as nutrients for multiplication of bacteria and the formation of microbial biofilms (Steinberg et al., 2002; Staufenberger et al., 2008; Singh, 2013). Microbial communities living on the seaweed surface are highly complex, dynamic and consist of a consortium of microorganisms including bacteria, fungi, diatoms, protozoa, spores and larvae of marine invertebrates (Lachnit et al., 2009, 2011; Goecke et al., 2010; Burke et al., 2011a, b). Among them, bacteria are ubiquitous and occur either on the seaweed surface or in the cytosol of living host cells (Herbaspirillum sp. in Caulerpa taxifolia) and determine different stages of the life cycle of eukaryotic organisms including macroalgae (Delbridge et al., 2004; Burke et al., 2011a; Singh et al., 2011a, b, c). Quorum sensing (QS) signalling molecules produced by Gram-negative bacterial strains determine zoospores settlement in Ulva species (Joint et al., 2002) and spores liberation in Acrochaetium (Weinberger et al., 2007) and Gracilaria species (Singh, 2013). Thallusin, a bacterial metabolite, and nitrogen-fixing bacteria associated with seaweeds have also been found to be responsible for induction of morphogenesis and growth in marine macroalgae, respectively (Chisholm et al., 1996; Matsuo et al., 2005; Singh et al., 2011b). Macroalgae (as a host), also known to be ecosystem engineers, play critical roles in structuring of intertidal communities (Jones et al., 1994). Some water-soluble monosaccharides such as rhamnose, xylose, glucose, mannose and galactose are part of algal polysaccharides that constitute part of the cell wall (Popper et al., 2011) and the rest storage material (Lahaye & Axelos, 1993; Michel et al., 2010a, b). These algal polysaccharides are a potential source of carbon and energy for numerous marine bacteria (Hehemann et al., 2012) that produce specific molecules, which in turn facilitate seaweed–bacterial associations (Steinberg et al., 2002; Lachnit et al., 2013). Therefore, these interactions between seaweeds and bacteria have fascinated and attracted the attention of many researchers worldwide.]

.

Love the research! You are supporting my hypothesis. My long term goal is to have my little macrofarm in the DT, which can support a pod colony and create a healthier tank. Huge thanks for the information!!! PS Love grapes...

 

[SMSREEF]

Recycling nutrients includes pods and seaweed. I add ornamental seaweed to display tank with various macros: Red Grapes, Red Ogo. I also like emerald green of Caulerpa Prolifera as do the Tangs & Angels. One tang and one drawf Angel graze on seaweed biofilms as well as biomass of seaweed itself.

I use chaeto in 30G refugiumthe of 75 gallon display. The intake overflow box is full of pods & green grapes, Caulerpa Racemosa. Lettuce clip with handful of green grapes & micro inverts.

[The seaweed surface provides a suitable substratum for the settlement of microorgansims and also secretes various organic substances that function as nutrients for multiplication of bacteria and the formation of microbial biofilms (Steinberg et al., 2002; Staufenberger et al., 2008; Singh, 2013). Microbial communities living on the seaweed surface are highly complex, dynamic and consist of a consortium of microorganisms including bacteria, fungi, diatoms, protozoa, spores and larvae of marine invertebrates (Lachnit et al., 2009, 2011; Goecke et al., 2010; Burke et al., 2011a, b). Among them, bacteria are ubiquitous and occur either on the seaweed surface or in the cytosol of living host cells (Herbaspirillum sp. in Caulerpa taxifolia) and determine different stages of the life cycle of eukaryotic organisms including macroalgae (Delbridge et al., 2004; Burke et al., 2011a; Singh et al., 2011a, b, c). Quorum sensing (QS) signalling molecules produced by Gram-negative bacterial strains determine zoospores settlement in Ulva species (Joint et al., 2002) and spores liberation in Acrochaetium (Weinberger et al., 2007) and Gracilaria species (Singh, 2013). Thallusin, a bacterial metabolite, and nitrogen-fixing bacteria associated with seaweeds have also been found to be responsible for induction of morphogenesis and growth in marine macroalgae, respectively (Chisholm et al., 1996; Matsuo et al., 2005; Singh et al., 2011b). Macroalgae (as a host), also known to be ecosystem engineers, play critical roles in structuring of intertidal communities (Jones et al., 1994). Some water-soluble monosaccharides such as rhamnose, xylose, glucose, mannose and galactose are part of algal polysaccharides that constitute part of the cell wall (Popper et al., 2011) and the rest storage material (Lahaye & Axelos, 1993; Michel et al., 2010a, b). These algal polysaccharides are a potential source of carbon and energy for numerous marine bacteria (Hehemann et al., 2012) that produce specific molecules, which in turn facilitate seaweed–bacterial associations (Steinberg et al., 2002; Lachnit et al., 2013). Therefore, these interactions between seaweeds and bacteria have fascinated and attracted the attention of many researchers worldwide.]

.

Thank you so much @Subsea ! That is exactly the research I was googling for, but there is just so much yet so little if you don’t use the right key words.

My long term goal is to have my little macrofarm in the DT, which can support a pod colony and create a healthier tank. Huge thanks for the information!!! PS Love grapes...

That’s my goal too. I love the look of macroalgae and the fact that it helps create a more diverse biome is a major plus too. I’m searching for the grapes right now...

 

[Subsea]

With respect to red macros, some are collected in 120’ of water. A case in point is Bortacladia, Red Grapes. It often comes from the divers as a dark burgundy in color. If I photo shock , it will bleach and melt away. Light intensity can be increased gradually with a corresponding change in color from dark burgundy, to fire engine red, to orange yellow under intense light.

I suspect Bortacladia thrives without red spectrum at the expense of competition from green macros. I find it displays best between 6500-10,000 K

Note: Depth collected for macro in the GOM/Caribbean region can be found at live plants website free guide link

Marine Plants in the Aquarium

macroalgae, marine plants, caulerpa, refugium substrate, marine macroalgae for sale

www.marineplantbook.com

The genus Rhodophyta is the largest and most diverse group of tropical and temperate marine algae with more than 2,000 species worldwide. Their dominant pigment is phycoerythrin, which gives off rich shades of red, orange and blue. Red macro algae are some of the most varied and striking of all marine algae and are highly sought after as aquarium specimens. Identification can be difficult in some species, such as Gracilaria, and some have slight variations depending on the location and depth. Although this index is not a complete listing, it represents species that are commonly available or sought after by marine aquarists. As new species become available to the industry they will be added.
Index of Red Macroalgae​ space Acanthaphora Sp.​ Asparagopsis Sp.​ Botryocladia Sp.​ Chondria Sp.​ Dasya Sp.​ Galaxaura Sp.​ Gelidium Sp.​ Gracilaria Parvisipora​ Gracilaria Tikvahiae​ Gracilaria Hayi​ Halymenia Floresia​ Halymenia Floridana​ Halymenia Elongata​ Hydrolithon Sp.​ Laurencia Sp.​ Liagora Sp.​ Lithophyllum Sp.​ Nemastoma Sp. ​ Ochtodes Sp.​ Haliptilon Sp.​ Trichogloea Sp.​
Copyright © 2010 GCE All rights reserved. No part of this online publication may be reproduced in any form by any means without the expressed permission of the author. All images are the property of Gulf Coast Ecosystems unless otherwise noted and should not be reproduced or distributed without permission.

 

[CMMorgan]

Thank you so much @Subsea ! That is exactly the research I was googling for, but there is just so much yet so little if you don’t use the right key words.


That’s my goal too. I love the look of macroalgae and the fact that it helps create a more diverse biome is a major plus too. I’m searching for the grapes right now...

Macro Algae: Your Source For Quality Marine Plants and Macroalgae | Gulf Coast Ecosystems

We specialize in saltwater Macroalgae and Seagrass | GCE has the largest selection of Macroalgae online, offering over 35 different species

www.live-plants.com

They usually have grapes. This is the worst part of my new build.... I so want to order my plants but I really don't want to have to move them from the old tank to the new in a couple of months. I am enjoying cruising this website and dreaming though. Check them out. I have heard from others that they are a good seller.
From my research, I agree with you on the reds.... I run mostly blue lights on my tank. The new tank will only be 19" deep, so I am going to have to play with my light intensity to get everything popping.

 

[Subsea]

Macro Algae: Your Source For Quality Marine Plants and Macroalgae | Gulf Coast Ecosystems

We specialize in saltwater Macroalgae and Seagrass | GCE has the largest selection of Macroalgae online, offering over 35 different species

www.live-plants.com

They usually have grapes. This is the worst part of my new build.... I so want to order my plants but I really don't want to have to move them from the old tank to the new in a couple of months. I am enjoying cruising this website and dreaming though. Check them out. I have heard from others that they are a good seller.
From my research, I agree with you on the reds.... I run mostly blue lights on my tank. The new tank will only be 19" deep, so I am going to have to play with my light intensity to get everything popping.

All Florida collectors will have reduced inventories during the winter with adverse diving conditions. With respect to new build, in my experiences with some more delicate macros, it would be best to wait on system maturity. I suggest you acclimate them in your mature system then transfer to new build.

 

[SMSREEF]

Thanks @CMMorgan ! That’s my favorite site but they are out of the red grape.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks @CMMorgan ! That’s my favorite site but they are out of the red grape.

No more collection of red grapes will happen until Spring. However, if you order Red Macro grab bag, you could get a branch along with other red macros.

<head> <title>Macroalgae For Marine Reef Aquariums: Red Sampler Algae Pack

(This red macro algae assortment is our best seller. It includes at least 3 varieties of red macro algae of what is seasonally available at the time you order. We currently collect about 20 different varieties of red macro algae from both the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic so the assortment varies. An excellent choice for refugiums and planted aquariums to add color and variation.)

I highly recommend Gracilaria Sampler. I got three gorgeous bushes of Gracilaria Parvispora, original red Ogo eaten by Hawaiians.

<head> <title>Macroalgae For Marine Reef Aquariums: Red Gracilaria

(We currently collect several different varieties of red Gracilaria from the Gulf of Mexico. These can include parvispora, tikvahiae, cervicornis as well as others. In addition to the numerous species available, Gracilaria also grows in a variety of colors. Tangs and angels like to graze on this species in general. The species we ship depends on the season and availability. Size 1 pint.)

 

[Subsea]

Gracilaria Parvispora/Red Ogo/Tang Heaven Red is available from IndoPacific SeaFarm in HawaiI.

: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :

Indo-Pacific Sea Farms produces captive-bred marine life for healthier reef aquariums: invertebrates, detritivores, live sand, snail grazers, amphipods, beneficial worms, macro algae, plankton, corals, coral food and beneficial bacteria.

ipsf.com

Tang Heaven Red™
The natural red seaweed diet of Tangs
Yellows, Hippos, Nasos, Blues, Koles, Achilles, etc. as well as many omnivores such as pygmy angels. Why invest in "terrestrial" diets like Romaine lettuce when a superior marine alternative is now available? Tang Heaven Red is 100% live natural seaweed from the place that made tangs famous - Hawaii's Kona coast. Tested and proven by IPSF for more than ten years as a COMPLETE diet for all of the popular ornamental surgeonfishes. High in natural fibers, which are known to combat, prevent and cure head and lateral line erosion disease. More convenient and economical than nori (dried seaweed). We achieve TOTAL wild color retention in Hawaiian tangs with the high levels of fresh pigments in Tang Heaven Red. Rich in garlic esters, Tang Heaven Red has superior medicinal properties which must be experienced to be fully appreciated. Shipped alive as moist fronds which you can add directly as food to your main tank, or float it in your sump or refugium as a living filter to remove ammonia, nitrates and phosphates.