Clown fish on side

[Nasabeau]

hello, I posted about this before but haven't received any replies in several days. I have a clownfish with 3 other clownfish in a 30 gallon QT. this is week one. after day 2 or 3 this fish seperated from the group and began swimming vertically facing down near the surface in a corner (see video). then a few days later and he started swimming on his side near the surface (see second video). he can go down and hang out with the others if he gets startled or for feeding and he's been eating fine. could this be swim bladder disease?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It certainly could be swim bladder disease - try to watch the fish at night, when the lights are out (yeah, I know, tough to see then) and try to figure out what it does at night. If it is still floating, then yes, it is likely positively buoyant. If, when it sleeps, it goes lower down, then the swimming at the surface is more likely some behavioral quirk. I've seen this happen when other clownfish in the tank are being aggressive - the one getting picked on will stay at the surface (since the other clowns can only attack it from one side then). I don't think that is the case here, but just wanted to throw it out as a possibility.

What are you treating the fish with so far? Do you have the option of dosing the tank with an antibiotic? If so, you might try Maracyn 1 (Erythromycin).

Jay

 

[Nasabeau]

It certainly could be swim bladder disease - try to watch the fish at night, when the lights are out (yeah, I know, tough to see then) and try to figure out what it does at night. If it is still floating, then yes, it is likely positively buoyant. If, when it sleeps, it goes lower down, then the swimming at the surface is more likely some behavioral quirk. I've seen this happen when other clownfish in the tank are being aggressive - the one getting picked on will stay at the surface (since the other clowns can only attack it from one side then). I don't think that is the case here, but just wanted to throw it out as a possibility.

What are you treating the fish with so far? Do you have the option of dosing the tank with an antibiotic? If so, you might try Maracyn 1 (Erythromycin).

Jay

He is also on the surface at night. So far the tank hasn’t been treated with anything. He’s breathing and eating fine so I was taking a wait and see approach. He isn’t getting better but also not getting worse. I have triple sulfa on hand and can get erythromycin Monday when my lfs opens back up. Do you think dosing the triple is a good idea or wait till I can get the maracyn?

 

[Nasabeau]

It certainly could be swim bladder disease - try to watch the fish at night, when the lights are out (yeah, I know, tough to see then) and try to figure out what it does at night. If it is still floating, then yes, it is likely positively buoyant. If, when it sleeps, it goes lower down, then the swimming at the surface is more likely some behavioral quirk. I've seen this happen when other clownfish in the tank are being aggressive - the one getting picked on will stay at the surface (since the other clowns can only attack it from one side then). I don't think that is the case here, but just wanted to throw it out as a possibility.

What are you treating the fish with so far? Do you have the option of dosing the tank with an antibiotic? If so, you might try Maracyn 1 (Erythromycin).

Jay

I began dosing the triple sulfa yesterday, but now I'm wondering if this is the actual problem, since I am now seeing aggressive behavior from the other two males, namely chasing. any thoughts here? perhaps qt is too small for all of them to get along?

 

[zalick]

For about a year or so one of my clowns preferred that position. Now she's going on 12 years old and stays near the bottom in a corner.

As a test you could try changing up the flow and see if she finds a different spot that is not on the surface.

 

[Nasabeau]

For about a year or so one of my clowns preferred that position. Now she's going on 12 years old and stays near the bottom in a corner.

As a test you could try changing up the flow and see if she finds a different spot that is not on the surface.

its possible that me changing up the flow precipitated his move to there. right now I am kinda between swim bladder disease, "he just likes it", and him hiding up there from aggression

 

[zalick]

In your second video it looks like there is a little surface film at the surface in that spot. Is this where the flow is lowest on the surface?

My clowns typically try to find the lowest flow spot to hang out because they are lazy. If the flow is just right they will allow it to pin them in place so they can just lounge. ;Wideyed

 

[Nasabeau]

In your second video it looks like there is a little surface film at the surface in that spot. Is this where the flow is lowest on the surface?

My clowns typically try to find the lowest flow spot to hang out because they are lazy. If the flow is just right they will allow it to pin them in place so they can just lounge. ;Wideyed

so, when I first put them in I had a PH running that was way overpowered for the tank. I noticed him move up there after day one because that is the lowest flow area, then I turned off that PH so now its just the filter running creating flow. most of the tank is pretty low flow. honestly I'd think near the surface is the highest flow spot in the tank

 

[zalick]

so, when I first put them in I had a PH running that was way overpowered for the tank. I noticed him move up there after day one because that is the lowest flow area, then I turned off that PH so now its just the filter running creating flow. most of the tank is pretty low flow. honestly I'd think near the surface is the highest flow spot in the tank

It's not necessarily about low v high but more how it's flowing from my experience. My clowns want to swim as little as possible.

 

[Nasabeau]

It's not necessarily about low v high but more how it's flowing from my experience. My clowns want to swim as little as possible.

yeah. to be honest, right this moment, I think my plan is going to be to finish dosing the antibiotic, rapid QT all of them, then move them over to the bigger tank, because I'm really not liking the chasing I'm seeing. that would definitely give them more flow options too

 

[zalick]

yeah. to be honest, right this moment, I think my plan is going to be to finish dosing the antibiotic, rapid QT all of them, then move them over to the bigger tank, because I'm really not liking the chasing I'm seeing. that would definitely give them more flow options too

Great plan.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I began dosing the triple sulfa yesterday, but now I'm wondering if this is the actual problem, since I am now seeing aggressive behavior from the other two males, namely chasing. any thoughts here? perhaps qt is too small for all of them to get along?

Yes, as I said, it could be a submissive posture based on the other clowns. They sell hanging isolation baskets, you could try that.
Jay

 

[Nasabeau]

Yes, as I said, it could be a submissive posture based on the other clowns. They sell hanging isolation baskets, you could try that.
Jay

I will stop by my LFS where I got the fish when they open tomorrow to see if I can get an isolation basket or a divider.

 

[Nasabeau]

Yes, as I said, it could be a submissive posture based on the other clowns. They sell hanging isolation baskets, you could try that.
Jay

do you think it would be worthwhile to move the other three over to the DT now after a rapid QT dip? on one hand I'm worried introducing the other fish late might prevent them from getting along, on the other hand, they're already not getting along... right now I've just turned off the light in hopes of getting the aggression down

 

[Jay Hemdal]

do you think it would be worthwhile to move the other three over to the DT now after a rapid QT dip? on one hand I'm worried introducing the other fish late might prevent them from getting along, on the other hand, they're already not getting along...

There is a pretty big risk in doing that since we are really just guessing at what is going on with the smaller clown - if it is something communicable, then moving the other clowns over early would just transmit that as well. Dips are never 100% effective, they always leave some disease propagules (well, they can be 100% effective, but then would be so long as to kill the fish).

That said, what you you treated them with and for how long?

Jay

 

[Nasabeau]

There is a pretty big risk in doing that since we are really just guessing at what is going on with the smaller clown - if it is something communicable, then moving the other clowns over early would just transmit that as well. Dips are never 100% effective, they always leave some disease propagules (well, they can be 100% effective, but then would be so long as to kill the fish).

That said, what you you treated them with and for how long?

Jay

just put in the second dose of triple sulfa so far (just over 24 hours with antibiotic). I have quickdip brand "rapid QT" which seems to be a two part formalin dip. if it changes anything, the DT is fallow, but does have coral and a shrimp in it, which I realize makes treatment more difficult if they do spread something.

Edit, I have copper on hand if you think that should be run in the QT. I wasn't just because I wasn't sure if that was standard practice for QTs

 

[Nasabeau]

Yes, as I said, it could be a submissive posture based on the other clowns. They sell hanging isolation baskets, you could try that.
Jay

Upon looking at him this afternoon I realized he was getting way more beaten up than I thought. In the sake of urgency, I crafted this. it is hung from the top of the tank with air tubing. the holes are not as sharp as they appear in the photo. does this seem like a workable solution for the time being or is there something major I'm missing? I cleaned it thoroughly with tank water, although no soap. I plan on trying to pick up an actual box tomorrow, but I don't want him getting killed overnight and none of the LFS's around me are open Sunday. thank you so much for your help!

PS, sorry for the bubbles. my filter does that for a couple days after I open it, and I had to remove the carbon for the antibiotic

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That should be fine for the short term, and maybe even long term!

Jay

 

[Nasabeau]

That should be fine for the short term, and maybe even long term!

Jay

after watching him in there, he's swimming around fine, he's actually camping at the bottom... I almost think at this point it was the aggression not swim bladder. I'll watch for the next 24 and decide then if I need to dose with antibiotic again. even this short though its a night and day difference in behavior.

 

[zalick]

Upon looking at him this afternoon I realized he was getting way more beaten up than I thought. In the sake of urgency, I crafted this. it is hung from the top of the tank with air tubing. the holes are not as sharp as they appear in the photo. does this seem like a workable solution for the time being or is there something major I'm missing? I cleaned it thoroughly with tank water, although no soap. I plan on trying to pick up an actual box tomorrow, but I don't want him getting killed overnight and none of the LFS's around me are open Sunday. thank you so much for your help!

PS, sorry for the bubbles. my filter does that for a couple days after I open it, and I had to remove the carbon for the antibiotic

I've used this setup myself. . Do you have holes poked in bottom too?