Bye Cyanobacteria!

[EnterName]

I usually don't ID cyanobacteria past Phylum (so nothing more specific than "these are cyanobacteria"). I'll sometimes point to similar looking genera or species that I learned about during my research, but I mark those clearly as unverified guesses, often with a question mark next to the name or careful wording that makes the uncertainty obvious.

To me there is a real difference between showing something and pondering about its identification, versus making claims about an organism's behavior, exact classification, role in the ecosystem, or if it could be used as a solution for the same problem in other tanks.

This thread hasn't gotten as bad as the last one imo, but I think people are more careful now after what happened. The last one ended in a locked thread and a bunch of unanswered questions that exposed the fragility of some made claims.

Criticism on overgeneralizations or basing observations on shaky facts isn't limited to you at all. As an example, I recently criticized the well known and respected dinoflagellate identification guide for generalizing toxicity and night migration behavior across entire genera. I've also said in several dino ID threads that I'm hesitant to assign a genus to a specimen without a disclaimer, since these organisms are so abundant that we might not even notice if a lookalike species or genus showed up in our tanks.

To go forward instead of looking at the history of how the involved parties came to the rather heated tone in the recent threads, I would love to hear how you came to the conclusion that you are dealing with Oscillatoria spp. and how you know you are dealing with more than two different ones?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Ok, let’s start over. I’ll add a few videos and you all can tell me what I’m seeing.

Algae, bacteria or something else, video starts at 400x - 100x - 40x

 

[EnterName]

Ok, let’s start over. I’ll add a few videos and you all can tell me what I’m seeing.

Algae, bacteria or something else, video starts at 400x - 100x - 40x

With reasonable certainty phylum Cyanobacteriota (no one questioned that under the assumption they are moving)

With reasonable certainty order Oscillatoriales (see Lasse's great comment on taxonomy)

And now your turn: Why genus Oscillatoria sp.?

 

[sixty_reefer]

With reasonable certainty phylum Cyanobacteriota (no one questioned that under the assumption they are moving)

With reasonable certainty order Oscillatoriales (see Lasse's great comment on taxonomy)

And now your turn: Why genus Oscillatoria sp.?

I’m not finished uploading all the videos yet, but thanks for the confirmation that we are looking at cyanobacteria.

 

[EnterName]

With reasonable certainty phylum Cyanobacteriota (no one questioned that under the assumption they are moving)

With reasonable certainty order Oscillatoriales (see Lasse's great comment on taxonomy)

And now your turn: Why genus Oscillatoria sp.?

I’m not finished uploading all the videos yet, but thanks for the confirmation that we are looking at cyanobacteria.

It's just my guess, if Lasse says something different you might be better off listening to him than me.

I doubt additional videos will help with family or even genus level identification but I'm excited to hear and see your assessment.

 

[sixty_reefer]

What’s happening in this slide? Is something eating the filament or not?

 

[EnterName]

I would stick with the cyanos first.
This is the exact spot at which the last thread ended. In that thread you were able to distinguish heterotrophic bacteria from autotrophs, now you identified Oscillatoriales down to family level, which based on morphology is not possible to my knowledge.
I would be interested in how you achieved that before proceeding because my question got skipped last time already.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Last question. What is this organism? Amoeba, cilliate or something else?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I would stick with the cyanos first.
This is the exact spot at which the last thread ended. In that thread you were able to distinguish heterotrophic bacteria from autotrophs, now you identified Oscillatoriales down to family level, which based on morphology is not possible to my knowledge.
I would be interested in how you achieved that before proceeding because my question got skipped last time already.

So you’re fixed on something that I can quite easily acknowledge may be a mistake in identification? In the same way you spent much of the thread questioning whether these were amoeba like organisms and suggesting ciliates instead?

You shared Rev’s thread asking everyone to be nice but do you honestly think that’s what’s happening here? This is exactly what I meant by crowd reinforcement. The focus seems to be on finding something wrong with the observation rather than working together to understand what is actually being observed. I don’t see much of the friendly support that you would expect from a forum discussion.

 

[Lasse]

The core question is - do you buy me and @EnterName ´s opinion that it is impossible to identify down to the species level based on the videos you have publish. A simple answer - yes or no.

Back to the question if it is cyanobacteria or something else. In the first video - there is motions and they seems to be segmented - at least one of them. If they do form a mat of "jelly" like substances - its probably Oscillatorales.

In the other videos - you can see segmentation in some of the "sticks" - but other looks like long tubes - they can have septa (its the name of the cross-walls ) but its impossible too see.

I have a question - in some of the "eating" organisms is looks like the "stick" is curved inside the mysterious organism - is that common?

We maybe should not leave the ciliate path yet - I found this that describe a fresh water ciliate
https://av.tib.eu/media/9425
The speaker use the word algae but it is Oscillatorales

There are similar ciliates using their cytopharyngeal basket

Ciliates have a mouth they take in the cyanobacteria - amoebae have not a mouth - instead they embrace the prey and let the pseudopodia do the work.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[sixty_reefer]

The core question is - do you buy me and @EnterName ´s opinion that it is impossible to identify down to the species level based on the videos you have publish. A simple answer - yes or no.

YES

Back to the question if it is cyanobacteria or something else. In the first video - there is motions and they seems to be segmented - at least one of them. If they do form a mat of "jelly" like substances - its probably Oscillatorales.

Yes, green jelly mat.

In the other videos - you can see segmentation in some of the "sticks" - but other looks like long tubes - they can have septa (its the name of the cross-walls ) but its impossible too see.

They have septa. If you share a screen shot I can see if we talking about the same organisms.

I have a question - in some of the "eating" organisms is looks like the "stick" is curved inside the mysterious organism - is that common?

In some, not all.

We maybe should not leave the ciliate path yet - I found this that describe a fresh water ciliate
https://av.tib.eu/media/9425
The speaker use the word algae but it is Oscillatorales

There are similar ciliates using their cytopharyngeal basket

Ciliates have a mouth they take in the cyanobacteria - amoebae have not a mouth - instead they embrace the prey and let the pseudopodia do the work.

Sincerely Lasse

I’ll try to video the whole ingestion process.